Red Wings

[Tony G]

I'm really not trying to be a pain in the ass on this but I don't understand how

Uhhhh, it is the Coach who decides who makes the team out of training camp, not the GM.

is the same thing as

Coaches do have input on final rosters even though the GM has final say.

[Malto Marko]

Because you fail to understand that the Coach does have veto power but when the list is too long, the Coach will let the GM's guys make or break themselves. It is the politics of coaching.

Scotty told Kenny who was making the roster, not visa versa.

[Tony G]

I bet Scotty got far more leeway than any other coach.

[Malto Marko]

...and I am guessing Babcock does too.

I am guessing every single Coach in the NHL has more input on their final roster than what you are willing to believe. The problem here is that Vets and players with big contracts are expected to be able to produce and the Coach has to decide which ones can contribute. If the Coach has too many question marks, then he will back off and let the GM decide his destiny with objection (submitting a list of players he thinks needs to be replaced).

A good GM culls that list significantly. Kenny is still learning Salary Cap team building.

He is King at non Salary Cap team building.

[Tony G]

I'd put up a slightly different version. Holland had to hone and refine a well developed roster that he inherited from Jimmy D. Holland was good at that in both cap and non-cap eras (better in non-cap since it just required lots of cash). Holland has little experience in building a team from the ground up. That's where he is now.

[chemiclord]

I'd put up a slightly different version. Holland had to hone and refine a well developed roster that he inherited from Jimmy D. Holland was good at that in both cap and non-cap eras (better in non-cap since it just required lots of cash). Holland has little experience in building a team from the ground up. That's where he is now.

I don't think that's it at all. Because they really AREN'T building from the ground up. The Wings HAVE talent. It's THERE... but a lot of it is still hanging out in Grand Rapids waiting for the call.

It's a matter of clearing out the space for them, and being willing to MAYBE miss the playoffs once as they find their place in the top league. That last part I think had been the hold up. Holland has so much pride in that playoff streak that he's been making moves to keep it rolling by any means necessary (like the Legwand trade... tell me that wasn't solely to try and squeeze into the playoffs, I dare ya).

Hopefully, he now has seen that these kids ARE ready. They CAN take the mantle. It's time to make the switch over.

[Malto Marko]

Did Jimmy D retire?

[Tony G]

He was promoted upstairs from when he was the GM and built the team from the ruins of the deadwings. See also below the Scotty had the title of Director of Player Personnel which is what I meant before about him having more say than the average coach

Devellano served as the general manager of the Detroit Red Wings from 1982–1990, and again from 1994-1997. He remained in the Red Wings front office as a vice president during Bryan Murray's tenure as GM from 1990-1994. During his second stint as GM, Devellano served alongside Red Wings head coach Scotty Bowman, who also held the title of Director of Player Personnel. Both Devellano and Bowman were replaced by Assistant General Manager Ken Holland after the Stanley Cup Championship 1997 season.

[Malto Marko]

Devellano served as the general manager of the Detroit Red Wings from 1982–1990, and again from 1994-1997. He remained in the Red Wings front office as a vice president during Bryan Murray's tenure as GM from 1990-1994. During his second stint as GM, Devellano served alongside Red Wings head coach Scotty Bowman, who also held the title of Director of Player Personnel. Both Devellano and Bowman were replaced by Assistant General Manager Ken Holland after the Stanley Cup Championship 1997 season.

Wait minute here. You are quoting something that is talking about 20 years ago.

Jimmy D, I believe, is still with the Wings.

Scotty was not replaced, he decided to move on.

What am I missing here that I thought I knew?

[Tony G]

posts 9963 and 9964 for Bowman v. Babcock and their "say" on player matters.

As to Holland being the GM, he took over a team from Jimmy D that had just won the cup. Not a lot of from the ground up building required. It's more like getting the keys to a Ferrari that just came off the dealer lot.

[froot loops]

Nyquist to GR in midseason was a Babcock call from everything I've read and heard. But here is the thing, they played 7 to 11 rookies in this series and it looked like the JV versus the Varsity. When you have to play that many players with no playoff experience its not going to be pretty.

[Tony G]

I don't think that's it at all. Because they really AREN'T building from the ground up. The Wings HAVE talent. It's THERE... but a lot of it is still hanging out in Grand Rapids waiting for the call.

It's a matter of clearing out the space for them, and being willing to MAYBE miss the playoffs once as they find their place in the top league. That last part I think had been the hold up. Holland has so much pride in that playoff streak that he's been making moves to keep it rolling by any means necessary (like the Legwand trade... tell me that wasn't solely to try and squeeze into the playoffs, I dare ya).

Hopefully, he now has seen that these kids ARE ready. They CAN take the mantle. It's time to make the switch over.

Chem, I'm not certain but I'd bet a good bit of the wing's business plan is formulated on them making the playoffs and getting the extra revenue, even if only two games. Then again two games at playoff prices has to equal what? 3 regular season games?

If you look at the RW rosters since the last cup the team has retreated till Z and D are the last remnants of the dynasty teams. The cupboard on the big team has gone bare and now it's time to bring the kids on. Many won't pan out or will be dealt for other pieces of the puzzle. That's what I mean by building the team versus honing an established team

[Malto Marko]

Nyquist to GR in midseason was a Babcock call from everything I've read and heard. But here is the thing, they played 7 to 11 rookies in this series and it looked like the JV versus the Varsity. When you have to play that many players with no playoff experience its not going to be pretty.

Agree. Sending Nyquist back is totally on Babcock.

Also agree with JV vs V.

[froot loops]

They got to add more players and hope the experience helps. You can get rid of Cleary, Franzen, and Berths but it makes the team even smaller. They looked incredibly small versus the B's

[Malto Marko]

They got to add more players and hope the experience helps. You can get rid of Cleary, Franzen, and Berths but it makes the team even smaller. They looked incredibly small versus the B's

.....and I am guessing Kenny knows he has to beef up.