Red Wings

[Malto Marko]

A lot of dimestore psychology. Out of all the warts you pointed out he was one of the three most important part parts of 3 cups. His production warrants his number be retired.

Yup. He was a part of three teams that won a cup.

He also was the best player on the ice during those playoff games.

His production is good enough to get into the HOF.

Retiring his number is up to the owner of the Franchise and his actions dictate that is not likely to happen.

He wasn't under contract. A holdout is when you are under contract. They told him to find an offer and come back to him.

Are you suggesting he did not have an Agent?

Federov did not represent himself and his actions were based on his Agents suggestion.

He did get a 26 million cash payday from a contract his Agent negotiated with Carolina and the Wings matched. But, because he felt unappreciated his performance in the latter years of that contract waned.

Bottom line is, he was a great talent but a head case and did not have the work ethic to play the game instead of grabbing the money.

He deserves to get into the HOF.

Fuck retiring his number. That is a Franchise thing and he screwed his own pooch in that regard.

I am not sure why any other player would want that number anyway so what does it matter?

[froot loops]

The Wings told him and his agent to find an offer and come back to them.

[Malto Marko]

The Wings told him and his agent to find an offer and come back to them.

What I am hearing from you from several posts is that the Wings were appealing to the player to do the right thing and the Agent was advising him to screw the pooch.

Putting an offer on the table for the player to accept and the player insisting the Agent makes the final decision reeks of gold digging and not understanding the dynamics of team and personal gain.

Had he stayed with the Wings, he would have had much more success and likely, more endorsement money (although I recognize that is not as prevalent in hockey as it is in the other major 3 sports) and would have the numbers to argue he was the best of all time.

The only numbers he really cared about despite the fact the Wings gave him his personal freedom was $$$$.

Wings did not try to take advantage of him and not pay him his market value at any time.

He chose to refuse his market value to move on.

Did it, and what did he accomplish after that?

He was not the team, he was a player on the team. He did not put up the same numbers he did with the Wings after he left which suggests, at least some of his success was due to the players he played with in Detroit.

I forget. Since the Stanley Cup success seems to be the benchmark of how good he is, how much playoff success did he have after he left?

[chemiclord]

You don't negotiate a contract without an agent present.

It's not done. Not by Yzerman, Shanahan, Osgood, McCarty, ANYONE. If a team hands you a contract offer, and doesn't want your agent to take a look at it, it's for a reason, and that reason is usually because it's a bad offer for the player. Expecting Fedorov to do so is wholly unrealistic. I think we can dismiss your opinion now.

[froot loops]

If you read Mark's posts you would think Fedorov is the only player to ever have an agent.

I forget. Since the Stanley Cup success seems to be the benchmark of how good he is, how much playoff success did he have after he left?

Huh? He was a 6 time all star on the Wings, he won the Selke trophy twice and was MVP once. All for the Wings. What he did after he left Detroit is inconsequential to the fact that his number should be retired. In fact the Wings probably got the better end of the deal, Fedorov did not age well as a player. But that doesn't matter for the discussion, to not put up his number because of a contract negotiation is pretty petty and a mark on the organization. Just as Ilitch's handling of the Sparky situation was petty and a mark on the Tigers.

And I'm right on this.

[froot loops]

Actually the Rodman number retiring is a good example, Rodman's departure from the Pistons was much uglier than Fedorov's departure. At the end he was flat out refusing to shoot, he was sitting in his car in the parking lot with a shotgun and ended up eventually forcing a trade in which the Pistons got nothing of value to them. They still let bygones be bygones. If you're classy organization you can't be classy 95 percent of the time.

[WingsFan]

He has the numbers to have his number retired. That's not all it takes, his relationship with the organization and most important the FANS is not a good one. I don't remember Rodman ever booed by Detroit fans (?) when he came back with another team, was he?

[jaadam4]

That might be Sergei's biggest crime. Because he could make a few plays look so effortless, when he didn't produce, people assumed he wasn't trying.

This...

He was awesome and deserves his number to be retired...

Way way down the road, he still left us. No one leaves the Wings.

[Malto Marko]

If you read Mark's posts you would think Fedorov is the only player to ever have an agent.

I forget. Since the Stanley Cup success seems to be the benchmark of how good he is, how much playoff success did he have after he left?

Huh? He was a 6 time all star on the Wings, he won the Selke trophy twice and was MVP once. All for the Wings. What he did after he left Detroit is inconsequential to the fact that his number should be retired. In fact the Wings probably got the better end of the deal, Fedorov did not age well as a player. But that doesn't matter for the discussion, to not put up his number because of a contract negotiation is pretty petty and a mark on the organization. Just as Ilitch's handling of the Sparky situation was petty and a mark on the Tigers.



And I'm right on this.

No, I am not suggesting Federov was the only player to have an Agent, only that I believe his Agent was a major contributing factor to his juvenile behavior and ultimate separation from the Wings.

I am not clear what point you are making about Sparky as during that era I did not follow the Tigers much and have no idea what went on.

My bottom line is that having a number retired is up to the current owner of the team and whether either one of us likes it or not, Illitch is not likely to bestow that honor upon him because he is still angry that he got dissed.

I happen to agree with him and you do not.

Nothing wrong with either take.

We will just agree that we disagree and understand that it is only Illitch's opinion that counts.

[chemiclord]

Way way down the road, he still left us. No one leaves the Wings.

No shit. I mean, remember when Gordie Howe jumped ship to the WHA? Man, I'm glad the Wings didn't retire his...

...

Oh, wait.

[Malto Marko]

No shit. I mean, remember when Gordie Howe jumped ship to the WHA? Man, I'm glad the Wings didn't retire his...

...

Oh, wait.

Actually, that is a very valid point.

He went to the WHA to play with his sons. He also got to play with a guy named Gretzky while in the WHA.

Howes number has been retired by the Wings, the Hartford Whalers (now the Carolina Hurricanes who still acknowledge the retirement) and Huston Aeros from the WHA.

[WingsFan]

No shit. I mean, remember when Gordie Howe jumped ship to the WHA? Man, I'm glad the Wings didn't retire his...

...

Oh, wait.

Im too young for that, but from the great Wikipedia:

After twenty-five years as a Red Wing, a chronic wrist problem forced him to retire after the 1970–71 season and he took a job in the Red Wings front office. At the beginning of 1972, he was offered the job as first head coach of the New York Islanders, but turned it down.


A year later, Howe was offered a contract to play with the Houston Aeros of the newly formed World Hockey Association (WHA), who had also signed his sons Mark and Marty to contracts.

[chemiclord]

The point was in response to the "No one leaves the Wings" comment.

Even ol' Mister Hockey left the Wings.

[WingsFan]

I think Babcock had the same idea I did about asking Nick, hey its only 48 games?


A report in Sweden's Aftonbladet today said Detroit Red Wings coach Mike Babcock reached out to Lidstrom this week to see about a possible comeback.

Babcock told the Free Press that all he did was ask Lidstrom whether he missed hockey.

[WingsFan]

The point was in response to the "No one leaves the Wings" comment.

Even ol' Mister Hockey left the Wings.

I understand that, though making a comeback to play along side you kids is forgivable. Though was it really the Red Wings or did he leave an embryo of 'The Dead Things'?