Bad, Bad, Ugly - If You HAVE to Shit the Bed, Against the Bills is the Best Time

[froot loops]

Do they have the money to pay what he's going to ask?

He is in his third year. He isn't a free agent for two more years.

[dsred]

He is in his third year. He isn't a free agent for two more years.

You know that's not true. They have to pick up the firth year option and that option comes at a price.

[froot loops]

You said can they pay what he is asking for, that means free agency Hoss. The 5th year option is not negotiated to what he is asking for. So yes, what I said was fucking true. He's not a free agent for two more years, he is also very important to that offense, he is a speedster that has gotten much better as a route runner and he is a great blocker.

I will grant you he might not be as tough as you fancy yourself to be.

Do you think they should waive him this week or at the end of the year?

[TheLondonLion]

I just can't see how we can compete in the post-season with this insane level of injuries. We are just missing too many good players. The defense now has worse personnel than last year and losing Monty is a hammerblow too.

A real disaster that a team so promising can be decimated like this by injuries piece by piece.

[DanO]

I just can't see how we can compete in the post-season with this insane level of injuries. We are just missing too many good players. The defense now has worse personnel than last year and losing Monty is a hammerblow too.

A real disaster that a team so promising can be decimated like this by injuries piece by piece.

Haven't you heard. We're not allowed to have anything good.........................yet!!!

[Coop]

Good: 12-2, still in control of the #1 seed, still in control for the NFC-N
Bad: Injuries. As stated by many...how many more players can we lose and think playoff wins can happen? Feels like we are winning battles at close margins to lose the war.
Ugly: The first onside kick. This made zero sense. Don't know what Campbell was thinking there.

The race gets tight..need Philly, Minny, and Green Bay to stumble.

[froot loops]

I'm not sure the defense is that much worse than last year's team. The safety play from last year to this year is night and day. The corners are still OK. They will have Anzalone back and hopefully Iffy and Moseley.

The silver lining in that loss is Goff showed he is up to the task of doing Stafford things. I'm a big supporter of both Goff and Stafford but until Sunday I would have given the edge to Stafford. Especially if you have to rely on the quarterback, Goff took a step Sunday. Someone in the game thread derided it as Stat Padford. But Stat Padford win a Superbowl doing that.

[whatever_gong82]

Lions film review: Before the tape gets incinerated, let's talk about what happened to the defense

Justin Rogers
Dec 17




Allen Park — A common saying in football is the film is never as good/bad as you thought, but the Detroit Lions defense challenged that notion with their performance in a 48-42 loss to the Buffalo Bills on Sunday.

In some ways, a deep-dive review revealed things to be even worse than the live viewing.

“That team played really well, but we couldn’t get out of our own way, either,” Lions coach Dan Campbell said. “Just had a number of errors that had been uncharacteristic, and that tape speaks for itself. We’re going to learn from it, then we’re going to burn it, and then we’re moving on because that’s what we do.”

Obviously, no one is literally setting physical media ablaze. But before this one is mentally incinerated, we should review it to determine what in the hell happened. How were the Bills able to come to town and impose their will on a defense that had been playing reasonably well for months, despite an abundance of injuries.

You've been warned: This won't be pretty.


Running at will

Because the first priority of any defensive game plan is stopping the run, let’s start there. Detroit gave up a season-high 197 yards on the ground. Buffalo averaged 5.8 yards per carry, scored four times, and had nearly a 70% success rate when factoring in quarterback Josh Allen’s scrambles.

From the team’s opening offensive snap, the Bills revealed their preferred stylistic approach, spreading the defensive formation by not attacking a tight end to the offensive line, allowing their five linemen to operate against a light, six-man box, and utilizing pulling blockers, typically their tackles, to lead the back.

Watch how the right tackle overwhelms Josh Paschal (93) with a pulling block, giving running back James Cook the edge for a productive, 5-yard pickup on first down. The only thing preventing it from being a bigger gain is linebacker Kwon Alexander (10) quickly shedding the second-level block of left tackle Dion Dawkins (73) to make the stop.


The success with these designs culminated in the third quarter, when the 227-pound Alexander was overwhelmed at the point of attack by the pulling right tackle, creating the initial lane on the shotgun handoff to Cook. And in the second level, left guard David Edwards (76) was able to climb and block up middle linebacker Jack Campbell (46).

A hard cut behind Edwards’ block took away safety Kerby Joseph’s (31) angle, and it was off to the races for the Buffalo back.


Another area where the Bills had success was with designed runs for Allen, also behind pulling blockers. We got our first taste of this during the team’s second offensive possession. On the first, Campbell effectively shed a second-level block and drop Allen after 4 yards on a first-down run. But on the second, the QB scored, waltzing into the end zone untouched.

The design calls for Allen to read the frontside end (Paschal) before keeping it, going the opposite direction behind the pulling left tackle. Highlighting some of the communication woes that would plague the Lions throughout the contest, the puller wasn’t needed as linebackers Ezekiel Turner and Ben Niemann both followed the fullback into the right flat, leaving a gaping hole for Allen to skip across the goal line.


The Bills went back to the design for their next touchdown, but this time the frontside defensive end, Al-Quadin Muhammad, collapsed on Allen and the quarterback handed it off to Cook for the equally easy 6-yard score.


Fittingly, Allen had two key runs on Buffalo’s final offensive possession before taking a knee to end the game.

The first was another zone-read where he took advantage of a collapsing end (Paschal) to gain 21 yard around the left edge.


Then, on third-and-5 in the red zone, Allen took a shotgun handoff and sprinted around the right side with wide receiver Mack Hollins (13) somehow managing to block both Campbell and cornerback Kindle Vildor.


Coverage issues
Of course, Buffalo didn’t just move the ball on the ground effectively and efficiently. Allen also carved the Lions up through the air, completing 23-of-34 for 362 yards, two touchdowns and zero interceptions. That’s a very gross 15.7 yards per reception.

Of note, more than 43% of the passing production went to his running backs, mostly former Lion Ty Johnson, who caught five balls for a career-high 114 yards.

We’ll open the section there because Allen’s first attempt was a 33-yard completion to Johnson. It was second-and-five, and the Bills identified Detroit’s man coverage with pre-snap motion.

After faking an end-around handoff, Allen’s first read was Johnson, who lined up offset right in the shotgun formation and shot through a gap on a vertical route angled toward the left sideline. The coverage was good. Alexander recognized the route immediately, flipped his hips and ran stride-for-stride with the back, but the throw was perfect and indefensible.


Later in the series, Allen found Johnson again, this time for 26 yards on a scramble drill, highlighting the quarterback’s ability to do unscripted damage by extending plays with his feet.

Running against a Tampa-2 zone, a look that has a deeper-dropping middle-field defender between the split safeties, Allen didn’t like his early reads. As his pocket collapsed, he rolled to his right, buying time while trying to direct traffic.

When nothing initially came open, most QBs would throw it away, but Allen came back toward the middle of the field as Johnson broke free. At this point, Detroit’s zone had broken down as defenders matched receiving options. Based on field positioning, it appears cornerback Terrion Arnold (neon green shoes) should have stayed with Johnson, but he got caught looking at Allen as the back leaked deep into space.


Allen successfully found another running back, this time Cook, on a broken play to open the team’s second possession. With his pocket collapsing, the quarterback sprinted to his left.

Fearing a scramble, Niemann vacated his zone to pursue Allen. Cook, who initially floated into the left flat as a check-down option, broke vertically as the pocket collapsed and then into the space formerly occupied by the linebacker, taking the throw on the move and rumbling for a gain of 28.


After giving up touchdowns with little resistance on Buffalo’s first two possessions, Detroit was in position to get a stop after forcing the visitors into fourth-and-2 near midfield, only for Allen to deliver another dagger to Johnson.

This time, a schematic decision deserves the blame for the execution. The Bills lined up with three receiving options to Allen’s right and the Lions countered by pressing up on all three at the line.

That poor spacing allowed Johnson, the inside man of the trio, to pick up a legal pick on the defender in coverage, Turner, before turning upfield on a wheel route down the right sideline for a 31-yard gain.


Johnson added one more explosive gain in the third quarter. On this one, Campbell got out of position in man coverage while trying to recover after initially helping reroute the tight end (bottom of the screen).

Johnson, who was initially knocked off balance providing a chip block, got vertical down the middle of the field and ran by Campbell for the 19-yard pickup after Allen was flushed from the pocket.


Communication and spacing plagued the Lions throughout the contest and were only magnified as Allen left the pocket. On the Bills’ final touchdown, after Hollins returned an onside kick down to the 5-yard line, Turner was again picked, this time by his own man, resulting in running back Ray Davis running free.


By the fourth quarter, the quarterback’s mobility was in Detroit’s heads enough that they left targets uncovered. A prime example was tight end Dalton Knox running free on a delayed release after Allen faked a handoff.



Concluding thoughts

● There were bright spots hidden in the trash heap. Unfortunately, two of them were Alim McNeill and Carlton Davis III. Both were impactful before exiting with long-term injury concerns.

Additionally, nickel cornerback Amik Robertson was sticky (only allowed one completion), Vildor stepped in for Davis and handled his assignments well, David Long Jr. was easily Detroit’s best run-defending linebacker, and Josh Paschal had some promising rushes, particularly on stunts.

Long is interesting because he's extremely aggressive with his key reads, and in some of his earlier appearances, he overpursued, exposing his gap. In this one, he appeared to strike a balance with assignment and aggression, leading to multiple stops in the second half. There is still some workload fluidity between him and Alexander, who has better instincts and range, but not the size.


● With so many newcomers and moving parts, Detroit’s chemistry was exposed by the Bills through pre-snap coverage switches, rub routes, and, most obviously, during broken plays.

Scramble drills are tough enough for NFL defenders, but magnified by the lack of chemistry. The pass rush’s inability to keep Allen hemmed in the pocket was a huge issue.


● Going forward, the biggest concern is the run defense. It feels like the Bills established something of a blueprint with how they spaced the Lions out and leaned heavily on pulling linemen to overwhlem Detroit's edge defenders. Of course, not every opponent has a QB that needs to be accounted for as a run threat, so it’s entirely possible what worked for them won’t work nearly as well for others.

The loss of McNeill will obviously be felt, but Davis' absence shouldn't be ignored. The veteran cornerback is outstanding in run support.

Email: jrogers@detroitfootball.net

X: Justin_Rogers

Bluesky: Justin-Rogers

[froot loops]

One of the biggest hurdles the defense is going to face is while Kwon Alexander and David Long have been legit NFL linebackers and should get better as they get acccclimated to the Lions defense, they are not big and in Long's case not good in coverage. When they put forward 4-3 base defense with Barnes, Anzalone and Campbell those guys are much bigger and it's hard to run.

Getting Nowaske back will help as he is big and athletic.

[Mainevent]

Yeah, it’s funny with Long that he has the type of build and speed you would assume makes him a good coverage LB but he’s not. Instead he’s a find and fire guy in the running game.

[whatever_gong82]

Lions film review: Why couldn't the offense run against the Bills?

Justin Rogers
Dec 17


More than yards per carry, NFL teams evaluate their run game based on its efficiency. As a reminder, an efficient run is a gain of at least 4 yards on first down, half the remaining distance on second down, and a conversion on both third and fourth down.

Ideally, you’d like to be around 50% or better.


Ahead of Sunday’s game against the Buffalo Bills, the Lions looked primed for success. They had been one of the league’s most efficient running operations in 2024, while the Bills defense had been below-average stopping the run. Add in the fact that it was a point of emphasis for the Lions after coach Dan Campbell had criticized the operation’s inefficiency from the previous week’s victory over Green Bay and it was reasonable to believe the Lions would get things back on track.

But that was hardly the case. The Bills smothered Detroit’s running backs in the contest, limiting David Montgomery and Jahmyr Gibbs to 35 yards combined. The scoreboard dictated the Lions abandon the run in the second half, but in terms of efficiency, the Lions mustered a success rate of 30.8% on the tandem's carries.

That marks the fourth time in the past seven games the Lions have had an efficiency under 35%. It’s a concerning trend. Asked about the ground game woes on Monday, Campbell said the issues have been varied.


"It’s frustrating because it’s, man, it’s one guy here, and it’s one guy there,” Campbell said. “It’s not just, ‘Well, it’s the scheme, it’s the same player who’s continuing to…‘ Man, it could be the receiver one play, it’s the backside tackle one play, it’s the tight end on one play, and so it’s just we’re taking turns a little bit on some things right now.”

As the Lions move forward and plan for Chicago, let’s look at all 13 runs from last Sunday’s game and explore the breakdowns.


Second-and-10, Montgomery, 0 yards, inefficient

After opening the game with an incomplete pass, the Lions looked to create a third-and-manageable situation via an I-formation handoff to Montgomery with tight ends attached to both tackles, including jumbo tight end Dan Skipper on Penei Sewell’s right shoulder.

But the heavy offensive formation led to Buffalo stacking the box with nine defenders within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. At the snap, right guard Kevin Zeitler (71) was obstructed from getting to the second level, leaving linebacker inside Matt Milano (58) unblocked. He was able to fill the lane and drop Montgomery for no gain.



First-and-10, Montgomery, 1 yard, inefficient

Two blown blocks derailed Montgomery’s second carry from a single-back alignment. Tight end Brock Wright (89), lined up attached to the left tackle, pulled behind the formation at the snap but whiffed on his backside block of defensive end Greg Rousseau (50).

Additionally, receiver Amon-Ra St. Brown (14), coming from the left slot, proved unable to dig out and displace rookie safety Cole Bishop (24), allowing the two defenders to converge for the quick stop.



First-and-10, Gibbs, -2 yards, inefficient

Gibbs’ first carry didn’t go any better. In fact, it went worse, as he lost 2 yards. With three tight ends, including Skipper, off left tackle, the Lions ran a zone concept to that side. But the Bills dominated at the line of scrimmage, particularly defensive end A.J. Epenesa, who set a hard edge working against Wright on the perimeter.

Epenesa was able to shed the tight end and contribute on the stop, along with linebacker Terrel Bernard (43), who fired into the backfield unblocked from the backside.



First-and-10, Gibbs, 9 yards, efficient

Gibbs provided Detroit’s first efficient run two snaps later, using his speed to beat cornerback Christian Benford (47) to the left edge after Milano (58) beat left tackle Taylor Decker (68) and shut down the designed interior lane.

Gibbs gained 9 yards before he was angled out of bounds by Benford.



Second-and-10, Gibbs, 13 yards, efficient

Gibbs stayed hot, delivering the Lions’ best gain on the ground later in the possession.

Detroit came out with a split backfield. Quarterback Jared Goff was in shotgun with Gibbs to his right and St. Brown to the quarterback’s left. The receiver motioned out of the backfield just ahead of the snap, ensuring a light, six-man box for the handoff.


The three interior linemen all delivered on the play. Left guard Graham Glasgow (60) sealed defensive tackle Austin Johnson (98) outside the lane, while Ragnow looped behind the guard to body Milano out of Gibbs’ path.

In the second level, Zeitler latched on and drove Bernard, providing Gibbs a cutback lane before he was eventually brought down by the deep safety after a 13-yard pickup.



First-and-10, Gibbs, 1 yard, inefficient

The string of quality carries ended at two the next play. The Bills took an interesting defensive approach, potentially developed from their film study of the Lions' motion tendencies.

After St. Brown motioned from his wide split to off right tackle, cornerback Taron Johnson (7) followed, continuing to an inside linebacking alignment. Left unblocked on the inside run, Johnson made a diving stop after a minimal gain.



First-and-10, Montgomery, 3 yards, inefficient

Initially lining up in an I, the Lions motioned to a single back look with tight ends attached to both ends of the formation. Using more motion at the snap — sending a receiver left — Montgomery headed right behind pulling blocks from Zeitler (71) and Ragnow (77). Unfortunately, the guard’s effort was ineffective as he failed to square up defensive end Dawuane Smoot (94), allowing the edge defender to get an arm on Montgomery and slow the back down.

I’m not sure what Wright (89) was doing. My best guess is he was selling a fake block into a route, but slot corner Taron Johnson didn’t bite, finishing the play with a stop after a modest 3-yard gain.



Third-and-4, Montgomery, 0 yards, inefficient

The Lions have had plenty of success running the ball in traditional passing situations on third down, but not this time. Goff managed to cleanly field a low snap, but Milano (58) held his ground on the edge against Glasgow’s pulling block despite giving up 92 pounds in the collision. That action condensed the lane, resulting in a no-gain stop.



First-and-10, Gibbs, 0 yards, inefficient

After Montgomery was stuffed, the Lions went for it on fourth-and-4 and converted. Going back to the ground game with the fresh set of downs, Glasgow’s troubles continued when he tripped over Decker’s legs while trying to pull around the left side of the formation.

That, combined with LaPorta whiffing on a second-level block of linebacker Dorian Williams (42), resulted in the well-designed run crumbling.



First-and-10, Gibbs, 6 yards, efficient

From an I-formation, Gibbs followed the counter lead block of Wright, as well as Glasgow, pulling right. Again, the Bills stood up the pulling block, but the back narrowly avoided the long reach of Rousseau, getting the edge for a quality red-zone gain of 6 yards.

What should be noted is the effort of veteran wide receiver Allen Robinson (8) on the snap. Coming from out of frame on the right side, he initially blocks Johnson (7), the slot corner, before bouncing into the third level to get a body on Bishop (24)



First-and-10, Montgomery, 0 yards, inefficient

On this single back zone run for Montgomery, Detroit’s two guards are overwhelmed by Buffalo defensive tackles Ed Oliver and DaQuan Jones.

Jones drives Zeitler (71) across the formation, eliminating any cutback lanes. Oliver, meanwhile, gets good initial pushback against Glasgow (60) before shedding the block to make the no-gain stop.



Second-and-10, Gibbs, 3 yards, inefficient

With three extra blockers off right tackle — St. Brown sandwiched between LaPorta and Wright — the Lions ran a stretch play for Gibbs to that side, pitching the ball to the speedy back.


Not surprisingly, St. Brown was overwhelmed trying to slow down the rangy and powerful Rousseau as Gibbs was driven out of bounds after just 3 yards.


Second-and-goal, Gibbs, 1-yard touchdown, efficient
Down 17 in the middle of the fourth quarter, the Lions attempted 11 consecutive passes to open a series, culminating with St. Brown being stopped just short of the goal line on a first-and-goal toss from the 5. To put a bow on the drive, the Lions turned to Gibbs.


The blocking was actually abysmal on the goal-line carry. Zeitler caught air as DaQuan Jones (92) swam past the low block attempt. And on the perimeter, defensive back Cam Lewis quickly shed the block of receiver Tim Patrick (17).

That resulted in Gibbs getting hammered in the backfield by the two defenders, but he somehow managed to stay on his feet and get across the goal line for his second touchdown of the game.



Email: jrogers@detroitfootball.net

X: Justin_Rogers

Bluesky: Justin-Rogers

[Fraquar]

I don't know about all that, but I do know Ed Oliver owned our interior O-line for a nice chunk of that game.
We saw this with Shaun Rogers and Suh - there are games where one guy can pretty much dictate what an offense can/can't run.
Fortunately for the Lions, they have a passing game and they had to lean on it heavily.

[Fraquar]

I just can't see how we can compete in the post-season with this insane level of injuries. We are just missing too many good players. The defense now has worse personnel than last year and losing Monty is a hammerblow too.

A real disaster that a team so promising can be decimated like this by injuries piece by piece.

Lions are so depleted right now they can't even afford to have backups getting hurt in the final games even if they rest their starters (and many of those on defense are backups)....
Campbell didn't mince words, some of these guys are going to get premium playing time to show their stuff to the rest of the league because with any good team it's going to be almost impossible to keep everyone.

Added: Personally, I'd like to see what that kid Sione has got.

[froot loops]

The running game not being efficient against the Bills might be the fact that the Rams truly embarrassed their run defense and they weren't going to let that happen again.

Also, there is a chance the Lions had a let down against the Bills. 4 games in 18 days is rough sledding, we looked at the extra 3 days off as a respite but there is a chance it wasn't enough to avoid a let down

[ghandi]

image.png

THis was against the Packers the game before...They didnt run it very well this game either.....The Bills game just looked like the Lions lost on both sides of the LoS......Ed Oliver destoyed them and our defensive line did almost nothing the entire game.....Playing several JAGs on defense caught up with them against an elite team.