Exhibition 2 - Lions @ Chiefs

[El Axe]

Yeah, that's the tough part with Vaki. He's looked really good in this preseason, but where does he get snaps once Montgomery, Gibbs, and Reynolds are in the mix? Where does Williams get touches when St. Brown and Raymond are suited up?

I guess you could say it's a good problem to have, but still...

Since we aren't carrying a fullback, that kinda leaves room to carry Vaki as a 4th back and special teamer.

Campbell said that he wants to look at Isaiah Williams on the outside. We may end up with a room of smurfs, which is a more appropriate nickname on a team wearing Honolulu blue :-)

[CGVT]

Yeah. If Williams can play big enough he should get some snaps out wide. If he can, he would add a lot.

I

[Iron Lion]

On top of that, I'll also say that sometimes it feels like the power in Bates's leg is somehow understated. Dude made a 55-yarder look like 40. I'm starting to think that he's at his most accurate when he's just giving it full leg every time. Maybe next time he's kicking an XP he just needs to fucking bomb it. Make the ball land in the upper deck if he has to.

I think that's a bad crutch that will be counterproductive in the long term. Taking heat off the ball for more accuracy is a skill that he must refine. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of a QB being unable to throw touch passes because every pass has to be a bullet.

[Cody_Russell]

Vaki is definitely safe, but might be a guy that finds himself on the inactive list if the top 3 RBs are healthy in the regular season. With the horror fest of RB injuries that the Lions dealt with last season, they’re going to eventually need Vaki. He passes the eye test. Plus the value he will bring on special teams one day. Cheap 4 year contract too.

Poor Jermar Jefferson and (Bam) Zonovan Knight are in trouble even though they could be rostered by other teams.

…

Happy to read about some of the results at DLine and hope it translates to the regular season. New DLine coach Terrell Williams being the greatest factor when it comes to this? Levi Onwuzurike, Brodric Martin, and others…

[DanO]

I don't know if I can handle an entire season of Bates. Every fucking kick is an adventure.

He's still relatively hew to the position. Lots of room for improvement.

[DanO]

I don't know, he didn't kick much in high school and only handled kick offs in college. His only real experience was in the UFL last year which is the equivalent of playing preseason games in the NFL if that. He's making big kicks and I think his best is ahead of him.

Said it better than me.

[DanO]

We may see Hooker as QB2 to start the season before it is all said and done.

I'm thinking he should start the last preseason game and get a shot with some better players. Maybe the starters will play a series or two. I think he should be QB2 but the Lions may make him wait a couple games. Why, I don't know.

[whatever_gong82]

Pride of Detroit Direct
by Jeremy Reisman


Well, that was more fun, wasn’t it? Preseason wins don’t matter, but they’re certainly more entertaining when your team puts up a fight. The Detroit Lions didn’t only put up a fight, but they looked strong and competitive against the Kansas City Chiefs’ starters, the offense had life for essentially the entire game, and some of Detroit’s young players looked like guys ready to compete on Sundays.

In this week’s newsletter, I explore the things I loved from preseason Week 2, look deeper into the Isaiah Williams situation, and go position-by-position with Erik Schlitt on how the game went.


7 things I liked, 3 I didn’t from Lions’ preseason Game 2


Liked: Hendon Hooker’s poise and patience

That was the performance I was looking for out of Hooker. Particularly, he was phenomenal in the fourth quarter, completing 5-of-5 passes for 82 yards. And while we should take all fourth quarter performances with a grain of salt, I was still impressed with how Hooker managed that game with a little bit of time in the pocket. He calmly went through his progressions, delivered accurate passes, and only scrambled when necessary.

Combine that with another uneven performance from Nate Sudfeld, and I’m starting to think Hooker could be the more ready quarterback in Week 1.



Didn’t like: Still no X receiver

There’s no doubt in my mind now that the biggest roster hole is the Josh Reynolds-shaped one. After a strong week of practice, Donovan Peoples-Jones fell back to being a non-factor on Saturday. Daurice Fountain continues his downward slide with another forgettable performance. At this point, if the Lions are serious about having a player capable of playing outside receiver, it’s clear they need to make an external move. Yes, Isaiah Williams is having a good preseason, but he just doesn’t fit that role. They need someone else, and they shouldn’t wait.



Liked: Strong performance from reserve offensive linemen

It’s amazing what strong pass protection can do for an offense. Nate Sudfeld didn’t take a sack against the Chiefs, and he threw for 7.3 yards per attempt (compared to four sacks and 4.0 yards per attempt last week). Hendon Hooker only took two quarterback hits in the entire second half, and he turned it into 10.0 yards per attempt and a 108.3 passer rating.

Beyond that, there were serious running lanes for the backs. Take away Hooker’s two kneel downs, and the Lions rushed for 122 yards at 4.2 yards per carry.



Liked: Lions DBs putting up a fight vs. Patrick Mahomes

Of Patrick Mahomes’ first six passes, three of them were essentially thrown away because of excellent coverage. Holding him and the Chiefs offense to just 6.6 yards per attempt and a 77.4 passer rating with Kindle Vildor and Khalil Dorsey as the starting outside cornerbacks speaks to Detroit’s strong depth. And even if there were a couple coverage busts early in the game, the Lions secondary was playing better on a down-to-down basis than we saw for most of last year… and that’s without the likes of Terrion Arnold, Carlton Davis, Ennis Rakestraw, Brian Branch, and Kerby Joseph on the field.



Didn’t like: No pass rush for most of the game

If you were looking for someone to potentially jump James Houston on the depth chart, I’m not sure you found him on Saturday. Yes, Isaac Ukwu picked up another sack and Mathieu Betts had a lethal inside move for a sack, but both of those came against Chiefs backups, and say more about their offensive line and quarterback play.

For long periods of time in the first half, Mahomes and Carson Wentz sat comfortably in the pocket. Detroit managed just two quarterback hits in the first half, and it put the rest of the defense in a tough spot. In fact, it really makes the secondary’s performance even more impressive.



Liked: Everything Sione Vaki does

While I think Vaki still has a ton of room to grow as a between-the-tackles rusher, the threat he poses as a receiver has been evident since the moment he stepped on an NFL practice field. He was essential on Detroit’s two-minute drill to end the first half, because that extenuates all of his strengths. He’s such a natural pass catcher, and he’s surprisingly slippery in open space. If Vaki is going to find an offensive role in his rookie season, I think it makes a lot of sense to have him as a no-huddle checkdown option.

Oh, and he’s still killing it as a special teamer.



Didn’t like: Special teams coverage units

The Lions gave up kick returns of 27, 27, 31, 36, 38 (called back for holding), and 43 yards. They also gave up punt returns of 13 and 42 yards. That’s the bad news. The good news is that when it came to kick return coverage, Dan Campbell revealed after the game that they were testing some new things out.

“(Dave) Fipp and I were messing around with some stuff,” Campbell said. “So we're tinkering a bit with the coverage. But it's what you know, if you open a seam up, in this, everything hits so quick that it's gone. So we'll learn from this, but we're tinkering with some stuff here.”

Let’s hope they got some valuable data from the unit’s struggles and will have a strong plan come Week 1.



Liked: Zonovan Knight as a running back

As I explained in the preview newsletter, Saturday was a huge opportunity for Knight, and I thought he seized that opportunity to its full extent. Knight ran with both vision and power, breaking tackles and helping set up a few successful second half drives. That said, Knight will still likely have to win a roster spot via special teams, and I can’t really speak on how he performed there. Still, Knight was good enough as a rusher on Saturday to earn, at the very least, a spot on the team’s practice squad. Outside of Montgomery, he’s their best option for a downhill, physical runner in short yardage situations.



Liked: Jake Bates finishing strong

I still have a pretty high level of concern given Jake Bates’ serious inconsistencies, but I do love his ability to bounce back. He’s hit some serious turbulence this preseason, but he’s been able to bounce back and avoid the yips. Closing Saturday out with a 43-yard, high-pressure, game-winning field goal is no small accomplishment. And it’s certainly worth noting that while the missed extra point is bad, he is a perfect four-for-four on field goals this preseason.



Liked: A relatively healthy game

Unlike last preseason game, the Lions were able to escape Kansas City without too many injuries. Dan Skipper did leave early, but Campbell noted it is not a long-term concern. Also according to Campbell, linebacker Malik Jefferson has a non-serious finger injury. The only potential serious injury is from depth receiver Tre’Quan Smith, who, according to Campbell, “could be out for a little while,” with a hand injury.

 

The Isaiah Williams conundrum

Through two preseason games, Isaiah Williams has been the Lions’ most productive receiver, and it isn’t particularly close. He has a total of 10 catches for 106 yards. The next closest wideout (Kaden Davis) has three catches for 69 yards. Donovan Peoples-Jones has three catches for 31 yards. Even preseason superstar Tom Kennedy has only four catches for 35 yards.


Now, before we hype Williams up too much here, it’s important to remember that preseason production doesn’t often mean all that much. Last years’ top preseason receivers for Detroit were Chase Cota (111 yards), Dylan Drummond (87 yards), and Antoine Green (151 yards). None of those players are on the team right now. The year before that, it was Tom Kennedy, Trinity Benson, and Kalil Pimpleton leading the way. In 2021, it was Kennedy and Geronimo Allison.

The point being, it’s easy to fall in love with reserve receivers, because they’re the ones who produce in the preseason. But oftentimes, their production is more telling of the players they’re going against than anything else.


That said, there are certainly reasons to believe Williams could be more than the Dylan Drummonds and Kalil Pimpletons of the world. For one, many believed Williams was a draftable talent. Dane Brugler had him as a seventh-round talent and said, “Williams is an undersized, yet explosive pass catcher with the nifty skills to make something out of nothing with the ball in his hands. He projects as a rotational slot option and punt returner.”

Additionally, it’s worth pointing out that Williams was in there early on Saturday against the Chiefs, going up against their first and second-team defenders, not a bunch of practice squad guys. Although he did get most of his production (49 of 71 yards) in the second half.


Finally, this is a coaching staff that rewards production. Dan Campbell isn’t going to keep a WR-X just because they need that position. He’s going to pick the best player and adjust accordingly. That is a fundamental part of this team’s culture. If you work and earn it, you’ll be rewarded.

But he isn’t going to completely ignore position, either. If you’re making Detroit’s 53-man roster, you’re going to have to have a specified role on the team, and where Williams is the best, Detroit already has great options. Kalif Raymond and Amon-Ra St. Brown are already better slot receivers. Raymond is a much more reliable punt returner (we can’t forget Williams’ fumble). So what would Williams actually do on game days?


As much as Campbell wants to reward good performances, even he admitted Williams presents a tough conundrum.

“We always put stock in the guys who are making plays, you know? And he does. He is making plays,” Campbell said. “Now, that's in the slot, which is where he excels. That's where his game is suited for and he's making the most of it. That's what's hard a little bit is, man, he is a football player, he is making plays, but we've got Saint, we've got Leaf, and so where does that fit. Some of it might need to be, well, can we put him outside? What can he do at Z? Is that a possibility? Can he survive out there?”

It’s worth noting that of Williams’ 36 offensive snaps vs. the Chiefs, 16 came on the outside, per PFF. So Detroit is going to see if he can broaden his game and expand his usefulness.For now, I still believe has a bit of an uphill climb to make the 53-man roster, but he has certainly made up ground and offered a tough discussion for Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell.



VIDEO: Jeremy and Erik break down every position in Lions vs. Chiefs recap

Jeremy and Erik break down the Lions second preseason game, position-by-position.

[wcfwtf]

Too many variables to know why decisions will be made.
Hooker is definitely a better athlete but still may not have enough of the playbook under his grasp.
No matter what it is only a matter of time.
I like what I see from him. He can be a starter in this league from what I have seen so far.

[whatever_gong82]

Lions takeaways: Hendon Hooker, Jake Bates lead standouts in win over Chiefs

Paywall article.

By Colton Pouncy
Aug 17, 2024



The Detroit Lions defeated the reigning Super Bowl Champion Kansas City Chiefs, in the Chiefs’ own building, for the second year in a row Saturday.

The stakes were just a bit different this time.

It was Week 2 of the preseason, and Saturday was another opportunity to evaluate the back end of the roster. There were some dramatics along the way — including a 43-yard field goal on the final play to give the Lions a 24-23 victory at Arrowhead Stadium. But that’s less important in the grand scheme of things. The Lions are looking for answers as the preseason games unfold. They might’ve found some today.

Here are our takeaways from the game.


Hendon Hooker should start the preseason finale


First things first: The Lions love Nate Sudfeld. He’s a cerebral quarterback who’s been in this offense for parts of three seasons now. Quarterbacks coach Mark Brunell values a QB who can provide a second pair of eyes for starter Jared Goff, which is why former backup David Blough — now an assistant quarterbacks coach in Washington — stuck around previously.

At the same time, Sudfeld has a ceiling. His numbers (14 of 27, 196 yards, one TD and one INT) don’t reflect it because he did most of his damage on checkdowns, but Sudfeld missed plenty of available throws. He’s only taking away needed reps from Hooker at this point. You’re not learning anything new about Sudfeld. And if the argument was that Sudfeld’s ability to read through his progressions would help the staff evaluate its top group of receivers, his performance hasn’t exactly done that.

Meanwhile, Saturday was the best we’ve seen Hooker yet — since OTAs, really. He finished the game 12 of 15 for 150 yards and a rushing touchdown. He looked more comfortable as the game progressed, and he settled in. Now that he’s gotten some opportunities to shake the rust off, it would be nice to see him get the first shot in a game — especially one like this.

If Hooker is going to be the QB2 during the season, why not get him reps against the first- and second-teamers rather than third? The Lions alternate those looks in practice — with Sudfeld and Hooker taking turns with the second-team offense. That hasn’t happened yet in the preseason, but it’s time. He looks ready for more.

Offensive standouts

You can make a case for Sione Vaki as the Lions’ offensive MVP of the preseason. He’s been able to showcase the raw talent that GM Brad Holmes couldn’t walk away from during draft weekend. In Saturday’s game, Vaki hauled in all four targets for 60 yards. He finished the game with 10 touches for 82 yards.



The only player who might have Vaki beat in terms of a preseason MVP on offense? Undrafted rookie wide receiver Isaiah Williams. He always seems open, offering Sudfeld and Hooker a reliable target. After leading the team in receiving yards in the opener against the Giants, Williams was back at it again with six receptions for 71 yards on Saturday. The Lions are searching for someone to step up at receiver, and Williams is doing everything to remain in the picture.

As head coach Dan Campbell said after the game, Williams is a slot-first receiver — a bit redundant with Amon-Ra St. Brown and Kalif Raymond on the roster. If the Lions don’t offer him a spot, you’d have to think they would try to keep him on the practice squad. But after his preseason performance, that might not be realistic.

To round out the standouts, receiver Kaden Davis’ 61-yard touchdown was the highlight of the day, and something he’s been doing in camp lately. It was a nice day for him. He’s in the mix for the WR3 job, but then again, who isn’t? I also thought running back Zonovan Knight was efficient and made the most of his touches, with eight carries for a team-leading 36 yards. Good stuff from him.

Big Game Bates

It wasn’t a perfect day for kicker Jake Bates — or Detroit’s special teams unit in general — but man, did he help his case on Saturday.

It began on his first attempt. Known for his range, Bates certainly showed it, as the Lions lined up for a 55-yarder. Bates nailed. It would’ve been good from Allen Park. He’s now 2-for-2 on kicks of 50 or more in the preseason, after connecting on a 53-yarder against the Giants last week. Bates also made his next three field goals from 23, 32 and the game-winner from 43 yards as time expired. That’ll do.


What won’t do was Bates’ missed extra point. We’ve seen a few of those in training camp, and he needs to clean that up. But what was more impressive was his response. Kicker can be a lonely position when things aren’t going well. A lot of it is mental. Bates — talented yet inexperienced — could’ve let things continue to spiral. Instead, he bounced back with three makes in a row to close it.


“Every time he does something like that, you gain a little bit more confidence in him,” Campbell said after the game. “That was really good to see.”

Campbell said he and special teams coordinator Dave Fipp know Bates hasn’t arrived yet. He said he knows there will still be growing pains along the way. But they’re going to be patient and let Bates continue to grow into the job. It sure sounds like he’s their guy. They’re getting him reps and seeing what he can do.



Defensive standouts and a note on special teams


Several players helped their cases defensively.


• Khalil Dorsey and Kindle Vildor: If the coaching staff is deciding between them for the last cornerback spot on the roster, it’s gonna be tough. Both played well against the Chiefs and earned some love from Campbell. Dorsey probably offers a little more on special teams, while Vildor is probably more game-ready defensively.


• Mitchell Agude: It was another solid day at the office for Agude. Against the Chiefs’ starters, he pressured Patrick Mahomes to force an incompletion, then perfectly dissected a screen pass and stopped it in the backfield to hold Kansas City to a field goal.

• Mathieu Betts: It’s been a quiet training camp for Betts, and the Lions even took Sam linebacker responsibilities off his plate. That’s not a great sign for someone trying to make the team. However, Saturday was his best day yet. He was one of three defenders credited with a sack and had a pressure that led to an incompletion. The Lions have an open competition for the back end of the edge position. Someone’s gotta grab it.


• Isaac Ukwu: Ukwu certainly looks the part of a player who can help the Lions. He continued to flash. If there’s a defensive undrafted rookie who can make this roster, it’s him.

• Josh Paschal: Yes, Paschal’s spot on the 53-man roster is secure, but it was a bit jarring seeing him in the fourth quarter of a preseason game. He made the most of it, though, recording a strip-sack late in the game. He’ll provide depth at edge behind Aidan Hutchinson, Marcus Davenport and, when he’s lined up there, Levi Onwuzurike.

• Saturday was a bad day for Detroit’s special teams unit, outside of Bates and punter Jack Fox. The group was way too sloppy with the football.



Colton Pouncy is a staff writer for The Athletic covering the Detroit Lions. He previously covered Michigan State football and basketball for the company, and covered sports for The Tennessean in Nashville prior to joining The Athletic. Follow Colton on Twitter @colton_pouncy

[ghandi]

Nice writeup hard to argue with any of it

[wcfwtf]

Thank you Ghandi😊