Fire Dan Campbell!

[Fraquar]

By "he does the same ole crap as bad Lions coaches in the past and just doubling down on his poor decisions" I know they all had their own special foibles. The same ole part is that they all were arrogantly enough to think that it was someone, something, some curse... that kept them from winning.

Shit, if you've been following this team for your entire lifetime it's hard not to believe this team is cursed to such an extent that even Jamaican voodoo masters are like - bruh, no thanks - can't lift that - sheeet, youz fukd bruh......

[Marko69]

LOL - Marko69
It's not the kneecaps that are supposed to do the biting - you are supposed to bite the kneecaps.
Still,

Yep……., MCDC (Munch Cap Dan Campbell) needs to get back on it. 👌

[Fraquar]

Dan "Capt'n Crunch" Campbell.
Puts Nutella on the Patella.

[Futureshock]

Yep……., MCDC (Munch Cap Dan Campbell) needs to get back on it. 👌

Right now he's biting his own knee caps

[LightninBoy]

I think St. Brown so far has turned out to be a fantastic pick.

I hope Jameson Williams turns out to be worth it, but the trade and pick gave me pause. The celebration of the pick reminded me of the euphoria or the Roy and Mike Williams pick. The Roy Williams draft had a trade so the Lions also got Kevin Jones. The top three picks were Clownshoe, Jones and Lehman. That draft got universal praise as a fantastic draft and because of that praise Millen got the extension. None of those three did anything of note for the Lions. When they drafted Mike Williams, this forum was overjoyed, there were a few detractors but not many.

I sure hope Jameson Williams is all that is advertised but he had a knee injury and he didn't become the player they drafted until he went to an utterly stacked Alabama team.

Clownshoe. LOL. I had forgotten about that. As one of those few Mike Williams detractors, I was ok with the J Williams pick. The difference is that this team desperately needed (needs) juice on both offense and defense.

The J. Williams pick is a good example of how this whole organization is really putting all their eggs into the year 3 basket. I think that was the plan that Holmes sold to ownership. He warned them that he would prioritize year 3 over any near term gains. And he warned that team improvements would not be linear. I also think that is why Campbell successfully negotiated a 6 year contract; to make sure he would have some leverage when the inevitable year 2 struggles materialized.

[chemiclord]

And I'd accept that... if the year 2 struggles were a matter of simply lack of talent.

But this team has looked bad in many ways because of terrible game managment and coaching decisions.

[Marko69]

Dan "Capt'n Crunch" Campbell.
Puts Nutella on the Patella.

👌

[LightninBoy]

And I'd accept that... if the year 2 struggles were a matter of simply lack of talent.

But this team has looked bad in many ways because of terrible game managment and coaching decisions.

Fair enough.

I look at these first two years as kind of like a long preseason. Wins and losses don't matter, its how they compete. Red flags and concerns are all valid to observe and discuss, but their relevance and relationship to performance in the real thing (in this case, year 3) is tenuous. Obviously, you can make a strong case that bad coaching today portends bad coaching when it matters in year 3.

[Futureshock]

Fair enough.

I look at these first two years as kind of like a long preseason. Wins and losses don't matter, its how they compete. Red flags and concerns are all valid to observe and discuss, but their relevance and relationship to performance in the real thing (in this case, year 3) is tenuous. Obviously, you can make a strong case that bad coaching today portends bad coaching when it matters in year 3.

Yeah, but we should be seeing progression. There is some. But the HC and Defensive coaches seem to have actually regressed. Or maybe it is the NFL catching up to what they have been doing and we have not altered our play to counter that. Do they have a counter? IDK. I do know Jim Bob Cooter started off hot and they looked awesome and then the NFL figured it out and he was done. He had no counter to it and it cost him and Caldwell their jobs.

My apprehension is almost purely coaching based. The injuries don't help. The youth of the second youngest team in the league doesn't help. But bad coaching is a killer. And it is easily corrected when one puts their pride aside. But, Dan Campbell is a PROUD man.

[froot loops]

I'm more concerned with the player acquisition part than the coaching part. I think with the coaching people are only counting the questionable decisions and not looking at the whole picture. They have scored a lot of points going after going for it on 4th down, that seems to get lost in any analysis.

I think coaches learning game managing doesn't happen over a couple weeks, it's a long term thing.

[chemiclord]

I'm a little concerned with both.

One of the markings of a good coach is making changes over a couple of weeks; identifying what isn't working and adapting. Campbell so far isn't doing that terribly well, and the last two weeks better coaches have eaten his lunch right in front of him. Yes, Carrol and Belichick are some of the best in the business, but that's where Campbell is going to need to be, and he really doesn't have that much time to get at least in the same atmosphere as the best. Right now, he's light years away, and that's a problem.

On the talent acquisition aspect, it seems fairly clear to me that Holmes is putting all his eggs in the Year 3 basket, and as a result really couldn't give less of a shit about how the team looks these first two years. On one hand, it makes sense; you know the team isn't going to amount to anything until Year 3, so might as well go full tank mode. But, as I've said, players don't have terribly much more patience than fans do, and two years is an awfully long time to see no results while your higher draft picks are sitting on IR or simply not effective on the field. If Holmes's plan works, it'll work great. If it doesn't, he's not going to have a team willing to listen to whoever the coach is by Year 3 to begin with.

Jameson and Paschal are going to be key, I think. If they return late in the season, and at least show flashes of why they were regarded so highly by Holmes, I think that'll give him the slack he needs. But if those two bomb, and the Lions finish the season in that 3-4 win range, Holmes's experiment is probably going to be over in that locker room, and by extension, he'll be a dead man walking.

[Futureshock]

I think Holmes has a longer leash then Campbell. They have what 1 draft pick that's a no good due to injury? Campbell has a multitude of failures from game management, player's not developing to the ever increasing injury list. When you really look at it, Holmes seems to be executing what Campbell wants in terms of players. But both get caught up a little too much with the human side of it.

Instead of getting some other people in here they chose to roll the dice on the team that won 3 games last year and their draft picks. THEN to strain that even further, they started trading away picks to make that number even less.

People think teams are cold for letting their player(s) go, but when it is obvious a guy isn't working out, no matter how hard he tries, he needs to be replaced with someone that can. Love be dammed

[froot loops]

I'm not sure Campbell has had a multitude of game management issues. When you are aggressive there are going to be times when it doesn't work and it opens up the coach to criticism. That's why for years, coaches would punt in the opponents 40 on 4th and short. The crowd would groan, but the coach knows punting shifts the blame to someone else.

I'll keep on pointing it out, but Campbell's aggressiveness resulted in 10 more points against the Seahawks, but people don't even acknowledge that as a plus. He went for it twice on 4th down on a TD drive and faked a ount that resulted in a field goal.

Holmes has screwed up the kicking game, the Lions have had at least 7 kickers on the roster since they cheapened out on Prater. Watch around the NFL and teams routinely attempt 55+ field goals. The Lions are at a disadvantage, 54 yard field goal attempts should not get the coach ravaged. When you are worried about a 49 yard field goal because you don't have a kicker, that's madness in today's NFL. This is not 1999.

[chemiclord]

I'm not sure Campbell has had a multitude of game management issues. When you are aggressive there are going to be times when it doesn't work and it opens up the coach to criticism. That's why for years, coaches would punt in the opponents 40 on 4th and short. The crowd would groan, but the coach knows punting shifts the blame to someone else.

I'll keep on pointing it out, but Campbell's aggressiveness resulted in 10 more points against the Seahawks, but people don't even acknowledge that as a plus. He went for it twice on 4th down on a TD drive and faked a ount that resulted in a field goal.

Holmes has screwed up the kicking game, the Lions have had at least 7 kickers on the roster since they cheapened out on Prater. Watch around the NFL and teams routinely attempt 55+ field goals. The Lions are at a disadvantage, 54 yard field goal attempts should not get the coach ravaged. When you are worried about a 49 yard field goal because you don't have a kicker, that's madness in today's NFL. This is not 1999.

It's not the aggressiveness. It's the stupid aggressiveness. It's the overcorrection and not coaching the team in front of him. It's fine to be aggressive when the situation calls for it. It's not fine to call 4th down plays that clearly are designed for a specific player... when that specific player isn't even suited up. It's not fine to keep being stupidly aggressive when it should have been exceedingly clear that the opposing coach had your gameplan dead to rights.

These last two weeks demonstrated pretty clearly how far Campbell has to go as a head coach. The rest of this season will show how much he's learned.

[Futureshock]

I'm not sure Campbell has had a multitude of game management issues. When you are aggressive there are going to be times when it doesn't work and it opens up the coach to criticism. That's why for years, coaches would punt in the opponents 40 on 4th and short. The crowd would groan, but the coach knows punting shifts the blame to someone else.

I'll keep on pointing it out, but Campbell's aggressiveness resulted in 10 more points against the Seahawks, but people don't even acknowledge that as a plus. He went for it twice on 4th down on a TD drive and faked a ount that resulted in a field goal.

Holmes has screwed up the kicking game, the Lions have had at least 7 kickers on the roster since they cheapened out on Prater. Watch around the NFL and teams routinely attempt 55+ field goals. The Lions are at a disadvantage, 54 yard field goal attempts should not get the coach ravaged. When you are worried about a 49 yard field goal because you don't have a kicker, that's madness in today's NFL. This is not 1999.

Are you sure that was Holmes decision on his own or are you assuming. Connecting the dotted lines, DC ain't exactly using his pro-bowl punter either so his aversion goes past where you are giving him credit for. I wholeheartedly doubt Holmes has made any move that Campbell wasn't on board or was at the front with. I can't see him going to DC and saying, yeah, let's get rid of that kicker, we need another million to sign some more JAGS. I CAN see him saying, this is our roster and FAs. Who is important for you? Not that Holmes doesn't have any copiability in that dumb move, but I believe it to be a 50-50 split at best between the two. But if you want to let DC off the hook for that so be it. But it is a gaffe on his part too to me. Holmes has consistently stated he and DC go over every move (maybe that's his fault).

You're making a general argument about aggressiveness, and I am talking about the end of the MIN game; the lack of defense and zero blitzes (yes you can yell Glenn, but it is DC's team); the undisciplined pass rush; the continuance of trying to run the offense without his playmakers with JAGs like Raymond (he's not St. Brown). When the offense under Lynn struggled, he took over and subsequently split ways. Point is he didn't wave it off for someone else to fix. Yes he's an offensive coach by trade. But if he is a HC, he's responsible for both sides and the defense is an absolute mess. He's allowing whoever to continue down that path. I'm not saying he has to take over, but he needs to do something.

It's more then Campbell going for it on fourth down. Although as you said, it worked against Seattle. It was, and still has not, worked against NE. Did he change his approach? Nope. Maybe, just maybe, you can't just do that all the time or your opponent (a SB winning defensive minded coach) will figure it out and play you for it to help his offense have better field position. His offense, with a rookie QB and struggling OC, would need a short field to kick FG after FG. And finally a death nail when they managed to get a TD. Checkers vs chess.

What has he changed to the good Froot? Who looks better then he did at the beginning of the season Froot? This team had a positive momentum last year. Even though they loss a lot, they were busting their asses out there. They were trying. I don't see that right now. Do you? I'm sure that you won't answer because it doesn't fit what you want, but it's true. Campbell's "gut" stinks right now and his team is suffering from it. He's kicking when he should be going for it. He's going for it when he should be kicking it. He's just spinning for the world to see.

You want to make it all about Prater? Fine. Have at it. But there's a whole lot more going wrong right now with that team. And it isn't all because the other team(s) are so much more talented. They could switch teams and BB, or Pete "Chewey" Carroll, would still beat DC in their sleep.

I would have no issue IF he learned from it. Show me...