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I think my biggest concern is that if any of the big 3 offensive lineman get hurt that could derail the season
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Confirmed
"Your division isn't going through Green Bay it's going through Detroit for the next five years" - Rex RyanComment
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well saidOriginally posted by NewOrleansLion View Post
Can also add that we have players who we can envision as being championship caliber for those positions. In 2022, DPJ had an 800 yard season, so having that at WR3 would be championship caliber. If Davenport/Houston could put together good healthy seasons (2021 Davenport + 2022 Houston would be amazing), that could be championship caliber for Edge 2.
We're not filling those "holes" with late round rookies or too-old retreads. It's not crazy to think that a healthy Davenport, DPJ or Houston can have a season like they did when they were last healthy a year or two ago. They are all still young.Comment
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Interesting article on the draft day deal to get Arnold.
Basically, the Cardinals also offered for the Cowboys pick, so the Lions had to outbid them.
Here's a direct link to the sequence in which the Cardinals made the offer: https://youtu.be/t_YluvOmxzI?t=286
Also, here's an article that rates all the CB rooms in the NFL. The Cowboys are rated 4th, so that can explain why they wouldn't be as interested in Arnold.
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Former Lion Isaiah Buggs arrested on domestic battery and robbery charges....He has had a strange past couple of years to say the least.Comment
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Paywall article from today's Freep.
Detroit Lions' Jim O'Neill, who has coached everywhere, knows just how special Dan Campbell is
Shawn Windsor
Detroit Free Press
The Detroit Lions’ newest safeties coach foresaw the NFC title game run a year ago. Well, maybe Jim O'Neill didn’t see the Detroit-San Francisco game exactly, but he saw a team on the rise before the season.
He’d been on a football journey. Out of coaching after a couple of decades. Making his way around NFL training camps like a seeker walking across the desert.
The path led him to Allen Park for a couple of days last June. He didn’t know Dan Campbell, but he knew defensive coordinator Aaron Glenn from their time with the New York Jets together more than a decade earlier.
O’Neill’s last official coaching job had been at Northwestern, where he was the defensive coordinator. That was 2022. He wanted back in football. So, there he was last summer, taking notes during Lions minicamp.
“Detroit was one of the stops I wanted to make," O’Neill said last week. "I knew they were going to be good off of the two days, just because of the practice style, and the detail that was into it.”
Does that make him clairvoyant?
No, just a coach who pays attention. O’Neill, who met with reporters last week in Allen Park on the last day of minicamp, said he’d been looking for a certain kind of atmosphere all his career, and that he thinks he found it here. He’d also been looking for a certain kind of coach to work under.
Not that he hasn’t worked for some fine coaches. In fact, he couldn’t even tell articulate exactly what it was he’d been searching for.
But when he got to camp in Allen Park as a visitor last June, he saw it immediately. Then he met the man.
“Dan didn't know me,” said O’Neill. “He probably sat down and spent 25-30 minutes with me on two separate occasions. So that right there I was like, ‘wow, I don’t know if that would happen in any other NFL building.’”
Last winter, he returned for a formal interview to talk about coaching safeties and acting as a defensive assistant coach to Glenn.
“And when I came for my interview, (Dan and I) just sat and talked for like 4½ to 5 hours. And it wasn't necessarily football. It was more philosophy, about my family,” said O’Neill.
He found that different, too.
Again, not every other coach in the NFL is all football all the time. It's a matter of degree, and of perspective, and of what a particular coach wants in a head coach. Even now, after being on the staff for a few months, O’Neill still can’t quite say what it is about Campbell that makes him different.
“He’s just a guy that you want to work hard for, he’s a guy that kind of ... he’s what works in this league,” said O’Neill. “What you see is what you get, and like I said in the opener, it’s kind of what I've been searching for my whole career.”
We talk a lot about the Lions’ culture and locker room vibes and the kind of players Campbell and Brad Holmes seek when they draft or trade or sign free agents. We talk about how players around the league like to talk, and how they often share notes, and how those notes should continue to be beneficial for the Lions as they pursue new players every year.
What we don’t talk as much about is other coaches. And how they take notes, too, and how building — and rebuilding — a staff is critical to NFL success as well.
Ben Johnson hit on this recently when he mentioned Campbell as one of the reasons he is still running the offense in Detroit, and not a head coach somewhere else.
“We’re extremely comfortable with each other,” Johnson said. “I mean, he’s got this way about him. We’ve talked about his leadership capabilities up in front of a room and all that, but he knows when to press, when to demand ... he can still crack a joke and have a good time as well. And there’s that balancing act when you’re in that chair that — he walks that line as well as I’ve ever seen.”
This is what O’Neill was trying to say last week. This is what he felt when he met with Campbell during camp last summer. He is right that Campbell didn’t have to give him so much time. But then maybe he did, maybe Campbell can’t help but give his time this way.
Either way, it was noticeable to O’Neill. And before you say, ‘well, doesn’t he have to say that about his new boss?’
No, he doesn’t. What do you say about your boss? What do you not say?
It’s a pattern at this point. Campbell is a draw, and arguably the brightest star in the franchise, a rare thing in the NFL where the best teams are often led by megastar quarterbacks.
In a way, the Lions present to the public like a college team, where the head coach is the first face that comes to mind. This may change if the Lions keep winning, and if their best players keep making plays on the national stage.
But, for now, Campbell is the draw. Or, rather, his persona is the draw ... his energy.
As O’Neill noted, last week, “it's hard to explain. It's probably why the whole nation was rooting for the Lions last year. People want to be a part of it.”
Detroiters. Michiganders. NFL football fans everywhere.
O’Neill wanted to be a part of it, too. And he believes he’s found his spiritual football home, where the head man pushes, prods, jokes, and ultimately connects, and where he can turn every meeting into a competition.
Board games. Trivia games. Using a football to knock down bowling pins.
“We compete in everything we do,” said O’Neill. “He finds a way to make it fun.”
Contact Shawn Windsor: 313-222-6487 or swindsor@freepress.com. Follow him@shawnwindsor.
"I hope to see the Lions in the Super Bowl before I die"
My friend Ken LComment
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Another paywall article from today's Freep.
Detroit Lions were only team that saw him as a RB. Now Sione Vaki out to prove them right.
Dave Birkett
Detroit Free Press
The first thing Quinton Ganther noticed was his hands.
Ganther, the running backs coach at Utah, was in a bind midway through last season when injuries ravaged his room, to the point the Utes went looking for reinforcements from other areas on the roster.
Sione Vaki’s name came up.
A starting safety and one of Utah’s best defensive players, Vaki doubled as a slot receiver in high school, where he caught 65 passes for 1,359 yards and 20 touchdowns as a senior in 2018.
Ganther joined the Utes in 2022 from the Jacksonville Jaguars and had no idea about Vaki’s offensive background. Utah defensive coordinator Morgan Scalley suggested Ganther watch some of Vaki’s high school film from Liberty (Brentwood, California), and when he did, Ganther was hooked.
“The crazy thing is how effortlessly he caught the football,” Ganther said in a recent phone interview with the Free Press. “So I knew that he could catch the ball, then the next thing is I knew that he was a tough kid because we’d do blitz pickup with him versus the running backs (in practice). I knew that he had really good twitch, I knew that he was really, really explosive, and I knew he wasn’t scared, he wasn’t soft. A lot of times when you get guys that’s making that transition, you got to see if they have the mentality to be able to play the position.”
In bits and pieces over the next few days of practice, Ganther found out Vaki’s makeup was fit not just for a position change but for a position addition.
The Utes kept Vaki at safety, and added some running back responsibilities to his plate. He spent an hour or so a day meeting one-on-one with Ganther to learn his new position, took a handful of snaps every practice at running back with a narrow focus on the week’s game plan, and delivered two huge performances in his first two college games on offense.
Vaki had 15 carries for 158 yards and two touchdowns in his first game at running back, a 34-14 win over Cal, then caught five passes for 149 yards and two scores a week later in a 34-32 win over USC.
He finished last season with 536 all-purpose yards and five touchdowns.
“When he became so productive and he asked one day, he was like, ‘Coach, where do you think I should try to play at the next level?’” Ganther said. “I said, ‘Well, how honest do you want me to be?’ And he was like, ‘Brutally honest.’ And the guys know that I’m very brutally honest and I just broke it down to him. And I think he still wanted to play safety, but the production, you just couldn’t deny the production.”
The Detroit Lions saw it that way, too, and, to Vaki’s knowledge, they were the only NFL team that did.
Vaki continued playing both ways in the second half of last season, but said the Lions were the only team he met with at the combine who brought their running backs coach to the room. (The San Francisco 49ers, the other team Vaki said showed heavy interest in him during the pre-draft process, saw him as a safety.)
“I was coming into the Lions thinking I’m about to kill this defensive film, and they’re like, ‘Yeah, we got our running backs coach Scottie Montgomery in here, got our head coach,’ and I was just at a loss for words,” Vaki said.
The Lions traded up to take Vaki in the fourth round of April’s draft, and Vaki showed flashes this spring with the potential to be a dangerous No. 3 running back.
Jahmyr Gibbs and David Montgomery are expected to share most of the running back workload again this fall for the Lions, but Vaki should be active most games because of his special teams ability, which could allow him to carve out a role as a pass game specialist.
“I would love to contribute as much as I can, but that’s really a top office call,” Vaki told the Free Press during the Lions’ mandatory minicamp in early June. “I don’t really know. Hopefully they can see and maybe package me in there, but I’m real confident in my hands.”
Montgomery, the Lions running backs coach and assistant head coach, said Vaki has the potential to be more than just a third-down back in the NFL.
Vaki impressed the Lions with his honesty at the combine, when he copped to how much he didn’t know about the position. A few weeks later, when the Lions brought him in for a pre-draft visit, Vaki had sketched out much of the Lions offense against different coverages and fronts, from watching games on YouTube, and was able to talk his way through many of the team’s backfield concepts.
“We knew that mentally he was going to be a sharp kid,” Montgomery said. “But now we’re not really having to re-teach. It’s all a flat surface for us. This is just foundation, so these foundational pieces that we get, he’s not having to cancel out two offenses that he had in college or why we’re doing this. He just understands, ‘OK, here’s what we’re doing, here’s why we’re doing it and this is how it fits into the schematical whole for our football club.’ So everything that he learns every day, he has it. I mean, he’s been as good as most guys that we see from a rookie standpoint, from a mental error standpoint. The fundamental piece we still got to go a little ways, but mental error-wise, he’s been really good.”
That doesn't surprise Ganther, who had a six-year NFL career as a backup running back and special teams star, and sees only success in Vaki’s future.
“I’m not sure what their vision is for him, but with him being able to do so many things and him being able to play special teams, I mean, shoot, he can be a core special teams guy,” Ganther said. “You can find a role for him to play, which will keep his career going for a long period of time. You know how it is, if you can find a role on teams, you can play this game for a long time.”
Contact Dave Birkett at dbirkett@freepress.com. Follow him on X and Instagram at @davebirkett.
Lions upcoming dates
Mid- to late-July: Training camp begins.
Aug. 8: Preseason opener at N.Y. Giants.
Aug. 24: Preseason finale vs. Pittsburgh.
Sept. 8: Season opener vs. L.A. Rams.
"I hope to see the Lions in the Super Bowl before I die"
My friend Ken LComment
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First interviews with the two new defensive assistants, Williams & O'Neil. Both come with very strong resumes and I certainly like their confidence. The kind of confidence that comes from knowing you can get it done. Obviously it doesn't mean anything until we see the product on the field.
Last edited by El Axe; June 17, 2024, 12:05 AM.Comment
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Lions position battles: Third options, secondary and more competitions to watch
By Colton Pouncy
The Athletic
This Detroit Lions’ roster has come a long way since 2021 — the start of everything under this regime. Last season was the breakthrough, with five Pro Bowlers, a strong collection of young talent and a core that reached the NFC Championship. The majority of that group is set to return for another run in 2024.
But even with all that going for them, it’s not a roster without questions.
Many of them will be answered in training camp when the pads come on and there’s money to be made. But based on the offseason moves and spring workouts, we have a pretty good idea of the key position battles and the top contenders duking it out.
Let’s discuss.
WR3
With Amon-Ra St. Brown and Jameson Williams locked in as Detroit’s top two wide receivers, the battle for WR3 should play out in training camp. There are a few in-house options that could be ready for an increased workload.
Antoine Green, a 2023 seventh-round pick, spent quite a bit of time with the first-team offense this spring. The Lions liked how he developed last year, even if consistent targets weren’t coming his way. Campbell spoke highly of him during minicamp.
“I would say AG was another guy that by the end of the year, we felt improvement,” Campbell said. “There was a noticeable difference from the time he walked in here to the end of the season, just what he was doing on scout teams for us. He played a little bit at the end of the year, but those targets were going other places. But we saw significant growth. We saw speed. We saw speed on the releases. He’s a smart football player, knew the offense. Really having high hopes came in early this camp.”
In addition to Green, Donovan Peoples-Jones remains in the picture. After trading for him at the deadline, the Lions re-signed Peoples-Jones this offseason. He has the athletic profile and body type of an X receiver and also has an 800-yard season under his belt in the NFL. He split first-team reps as the No. 3 receiver with Green this spring. And while he’s probably better in a reserve role, Kalif Raymond has been a productive player when called upon and could see more targets this season.
One thing worth noting: The Lions have some cap space at their disposal. If a notable receiver is on the verge of being cut in training camp, the Lions could have the resources to make a move or outbid another team.
There’s an opportunity with Josh Reynolds off to Denver. Who’s going to seize it?
“Something we’ve talked about with the skill group, those opportunities go elsewhere now and we need guys to step up and rise to the occasion just like he did,” Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson said of Josh Reynolds. “It might be someone who didn’t have as much production last year — say an Antoine Green or a Peoples-Jones — or some of the guys we had on the scout team. That could be it. Or it could be some of the other guys. …That’s what we’re trying to figure out this springtime and in training camp, is not just who the guys are we’ll hang our hats on, but also how we distribute those carries and targets as the season goes.”
Defensive end (opposite Aidan Hutchinson)
Not of ton of drama here, but I do think it’s worth discussing the battle between Josh Paschal and Marcus Davenport. Paschal is entering his third year. Right now, he hasn’t proven to be much of a pass-rush threat, with just 10 pressures and a 5.8 percent win rate last season. The latter ranked 75th among 78 edge rushers with at least 250 pass-rush snaps, per Pro Football Focus. Still, Holmes believes in the power of a third-year breakout, and you have to think the Lions would love nothing more than for Paschal to emerge in Year 3. He was getting all the first-team reps this spring with Davenport shelved.
At the same time, a healthy Davenport can be a difference-maker. He’s not too far removed from a really strong 2021 campaign (nine sacks; 18.3 win rate in 11 games). If you’re on the more optimistic side of things, perhaps the Lions can get a healthy, productive Davenport for double-digit games. That might be asking a lot, though. He’ll have to prove he’s still that guy, and he’s already missed time this spring.
I think the early edge goes to Davenport given his upside as a pass-rusher who can also defend the run, but Paschal — and really, Davenport’s body — could have something to say about it.
TE3
This is starting to feel like a make-or-break year for James Mitchell. He’s been nothing more than TE3 for the Lions since he arrived. As a fifth-rounder, you can deal with that — especially considering there’s an All-Pro in Sam LaPorta and a trusted presence like Brock Wright in front of him. But there is pressure mounting. Shane Zylstra, injured all of last season, looked very good in OTAs. Campbell said he picked up where he left off before the injury, when he was repping over Mitchell at the end of the 2022 season. I would not be surprised if Zylstra beats out Mitchell. He’s got work to do.
Secondary
We had to categorize this one as “secondary” because it’s truly that wide open. There are also a ton of moving parts.
At corner, we know Carlton Davis III is locked in on the outside. The Lions traded a third-round pick for just one year of his services guaranteed. He’s a Week 1 starter. Elsewhere, though, the position is far from settled. Amik Robertson could play on the outside. Emmanuel Moseley, expected back for training camp after tearing his ACL last October, was a talented outside option before the injury, and Brad Holmes essentially told us not to forget about him. And then there are the rookies — Terrion Arnold and Ennis Rakestraw Jr. If the season started today, my best guess would be Davis and Arnold as your outside starters.
As for the nickel spot, this is where things get interesting. The Lions have hinted at the possibility of Brian Branch moving from nickel to safety. Now, that could just be a situational or part-time thing. At the same time, I think the staff will try to get their best five DBs on the field together. We know Branch is one, and his versatility could help facilitate a starting job for someone else. If Branch moves to safety, we could see someone like Robertson — who was repping at nickel in Branch’s absence this spring — replace him.
What would that mean for the safety spot? The Lions have three starting-caliber safeties in Branch, Kerby Joseph and Ifeatu Melifonwu. Truth be told, Branch and Melifonwu can do a lot of the same things. And while Joseph’s aggressive tendencies get him in trouble sometimes, he has ballhawking skills and range like no one else on the roster. If Branch moves to safety, I think he’d be paired with Joseph, with Melifonwu as a rotational third safety.
“We have so many options right now, so much competitiveness,” Campbell said earlier this month. “…The talent level, the competitiveness, the versatility. Honestly, we have no idea who our starting lineup’s going to be right now and it’s exciting. It’s so good. There’s no telling who’s going to be our outside corners, who’s going to be our nickel, who’s going to be our safeties. This thing is wide open across the board. It’s going to be great to let these guys compete and just go after it and see who goes and is going to be the most reliable guys for us, most dependable. It’s exciting.”
Fascinated to see how this plays out.
RB3
I spent quite a bit of time watching fourth-round pick Sione Vaki during OTAs and minicamp. Talk about a natural football player.
It’s easy to see why the Lions fell in love with him — and why they view him as a running back. As a receiver out of the backfield, he looked like a crisp route runner, which makes sense given his receiving background in high school. He broke a few long runs and ran by the defense when he did. I’m not sure what his upside is and I’m not sure the Lions do, either. But I do think he’s already the third-most talented RB on the roster. Right now, the Lions are working on the intricacies of the position — pass protection, terminology, etc. It might take time, but he has the look of a quick study.
“The great part of a guy that we get at that age, he’s already very sharp,” Lions RBs coach Scottie Montgomery said of Vaki. “We knew that mentally he was going to be a sharp kid. But now we’re not really having to re-teach. It’s a flat surface for us, this is just foundation. …He’s not having to cancel out two offenses that he had in college or why we’re doing this. He just understands, ‘Okay, here’s what we’re doing here, here’s why we’re doing it, and this is how it fits into the schematic hole for our football club.’ So everything that he learns every day, he has it. He’s been as good as most guys that we see from a rookie standpoint, from a mental error standpoint.”
That doesn’t mean he’ll be handed the job, though. This staff values Craig Reynolds’ toughness, IQ, knowledge of the playbook, and special teams contributions. He’s as resilient as they come. May the best man win.
Kicker
If we’re going off of spring observations, James Turner would be the front-runner for the kicking job. He was generally the more consistent option, with more leg strength than Michael Badgley, though the Lions clearly like Badgley and he’s done it in games, unlike the unproven Turner. However, the latest development here could put an end to the competition. The Lions reportedly will sign UFL standout Jake Bates this week. Have to think he’d be the new favorite, considering the length of the reported deal (two years) and his impressive leg strength. Bates won’t be handed the job, but if he performs like he did this past season in training camp, he should win.
Colton Pouncy
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"I hope to see the Lions in the Super Bowl before I die"
My friend Ken LComment
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The problem is the "our only option is to bring out Tucker" play, is going to be so rare as to be insignificant. It would be nice to kick for a win rather than a Hail Mary in those situations if/when they happen. Something we can't do with Badgely. But its those sub 40 yard kicks that Bates (or Turner) has to prove themselves on. I don't think leg at all matters if they aren't 100% sure they are getting the better player for those kicks. Either one of them are in luck. Badgely is good but not Mr. reliable there so, its not a hard road to pass.Originally posted by chemiclord View PostComment
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Lions signed Bates and cut TurnerI feel like I am watching the destruction of our democracy while my neighbors and friends cheer it onComment
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Me either. They must think pretty highly of Bates.Originally posted by DanO View PostI feel like I am watching the destruction of our democracy while my neighbors and friends cheer it onComment
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Or the coaches saw something they didn't like in Turner that wasn't seen in public practices.Comment
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