Lions News

[chemiclord]

I like to think that as long as the Lions offer is anywhere within smelling distance of the best offer he gets, he'll sign with Detroit if for no reason than they are a team contending for a championship.

In reality, I suspect the Lions completely unserious pursuit of a kicker will lead to them "offering" a deal that's borderline insulting, then an indifferent shrug as they run out Badgley for another year.

[Blue Lagoon58]

I'm sure a team that takes special teams as serious as they do, are just mailing it in on a K while the experts in the Detroit Lions Forum know best!

[froot loops]

Can you imagine how exhausting it must be to be that cynical every day?

The fact is the Lions game were one of the first to allegedly contact Bates during the UFL season.

The Lions were so unserious last year that they rolled out Badgley at the start of the season, except they didn't. He was cut in July.

[edindetroit]

In reality, I suspect the Lions completely unserious pursuit of a kicker will lead to them "offering" a deal that's borderline insulting, then an indifferent shrug as they run out Badgley for another year.

Here's hoping you are completely wrong.

[Forsh]

I like to think that as long as the Lions offer is anywhere within smelling distance of the best offer he gets, he'll sign with Detroit if for no reason than they are a team contending for a championship.

In reality, I suspect the Lions completely unserious pursuit of a kicker will lead to them "offering" a deal that's borderline insulting, then an indifferent shrug as they run out Badgley for another year.

There is no deal that's borderline insulting unless it's a practice squad offer. The guy didn't kick in college and has never kicked in the NFL. He had some big ups, but it sounds like there were a few downs as well.

James Turner, on the other hand ...

[chemiclord]

Can you imagine how exhausting it must be to be that cynical every day?

The fact is the Lions game were one of the first to allegedly contact Bates during the UFL season.

The Lions were so unserious last year that they rolled out Badgley at the start of the season, except they didn't. He was cut in July.

Yeah, they ran with... (checks notes) Riley Patterson, to start the season instead, then went back to Badgely midseason.

Yep. Sounds like they're real serious about the kicker position.

I mean, I dunno what else to tell you. The Lions are not serious about upgrading the kicker position. They genuinely feel that in nearly every situation where they'd need an "elite" kicker is a situation where they are probably going to be going for it on 4th down instead. Campbell has outright said as much. Whether that's a position they've always held or one they kinda "worked their way into a shoot" over, it's what they are doing now.

That it's the only part of the Lions team building method that I strenuously disagree with is a far cry from when we could question damn near three quarters of their decisions.

[El Axe]

Bates is from the Houston area and the Texans are another team interested. They're also on the rise as contenders.

[froot loops]

Last year the Lions signed the "it" kicker from the USFL in John Parker Romo and he lost the competition to Riley Patterson who they traded for. They seemed to be very serious about finding a kicker but finding a kicker that is accurate and can hit them from long range is not as easy as you are making it out to be. Would it have been better in your eyes if they drafted Cade York? Again, when teams don't have a good reliable kicker they shuffle through them until they find one and then they try to keep them for a long time.

From the reports from OTA and mini camp Badgley's leg strength is much better and he has been hitting mid 50s field goals but Turner has been better and has range over 60. If they were unserious, they wouldn't have signed Turner and wouldn't have contacted Bates. They certainly aren't purposely keeping worse kickers or not trying to find ones because of Dan Campbell. It's a dumb argument.

[froot loops]

Bates is from the Houston area and the Texans are another team interested. They're also on the rise as contenders.

This may be so but Bates is already used to kicking at Ford Field. Ultimately it comes down to where he thinks he has the best shot at making the team.

[edindetroit]

Every time he makes a field goal over 50 yards fans can take their ticket stub to Bates for a free burger. If it's a game winner they get a combo meal.

[chemiclord]

Last year the Lions signed the "it" kicker from the USFL in John Parker Romo and he lost the competition to Riley Patterson who they traded for. They seemed to be very serious about finding a kicker but finding a kicker that is accurate and can hit them from long range is not as easy as you are making it out to be. Would it have been better in your eyes if they drafted Cade York? Again, when teams don't have a good reliable kicker they shuffle through them until they find one and then they try to keep them for a long time.

From the reports from OTA and mini camp Badgley's leg strength is much better and he has been hitting mid 50s field goals but Turner has been better and has range over 60. If they were unserious, they wouldn't have signed Turner and wouldn't have contacted Bates. They certainly aren't purposely keeping worse kickers or not trying to find ones because of Dan Campbell. It's a dumb argument.

Yes, I refuse to believe that in all the width and breadth of this league and all the kickers available, that a team serious about finding the best kicker they possibly can couldn't be expected to find a better option than the ones they've trotted out there. I would say if you go through three offseasons now, and the best you can come up with is Riley Patterson or Michael Badgely, you have one of two things going on. Either...

A) You suck at finding kickers

or

B) You're not looking terribly hard.

Considering all the things the Lions have said over the last three offseasons, I'm fairly convinced the answer is (B). It's not a matter of "purposefully" doing anything. The Lions think someone like Badgely or Patterson are good enough for the job they need to do. Sure, they'll cast out lines here and there, they'll entertain someone like Romo or Turner or Bates, and yeah if they happen upon someone better, they'll roll with it.

But at the end of the day, this team thinks all they particularly need is someone who reliably can make extra points and have a puncher's chance of making it from the 50-yard range in the rare situations they aren't going for it on 4th down.

I disagree with this approach. I think it's more important than they think it is. That's it.

[Coop]

As Brad Holmes stated earlier this year at the season ending presser...every move made or not made is for a specific reason. Not worried about this.

[chemiclord]

I mean, really, at the end of the day, when the only problem I have is with the fucking place kicker, that really should put a lot into perspective.

[froot loops]

Yes, I refuse to believe that in all the width and breadth of this league and all the kickers available, that a team serious about finding the best kicker they possibly can couldn't be expected to find a better option than the ones they've trotted out there. I would say if you go through three offseasons now, and the best you can come up with is Riley Patterson or Michael Badgely, you have one of two things going on. Either...

A) You suck at finding kickers

or

B) You're not looking terribly hard.

Considering all the things the Lions have said over the last three offseasons, I'm fairly convinced the answer is (B). It's not a matter of "purposefully" doing anything. The Lions think someone like Badgely or Patterson are good enough for the job they need to do. Sure, they'll cast out lines here and there, they'll entertain someone like Romo or Turner or Bates, and yeah if they happen upon someone better, they'll roll with it.

But at the end of the day, this team thinks all they particularly need is someone who reliably can make extra points and have a puncher's chance of making it from the 50-yard range in the rare situations they aren't going for it on 4th down.

I disagree with this approach. I think it's more important than they think it is. That's it.

What teams do you think are serious and aggressive in their approach to get top notch kickers that put the Lion approach to shame? There must be a few easy examples of a team that had problems and went aggressively out there to find a kicker and were immediately successful. It's why a lot of these kickers bounce around and then catch on with a team like Prater did with the Broncos. Prater had Badgley's range coming out of college, he wasn't very good, his leg got stronger as he matured and soon he was hitting 55 yard bombs. Denver got lucky with that.

The consensus best kicker in football is Justin Tucker, he went undrafted in a year where 4 kickers were drafted. He was signed as a UDFA to provide competition by the Ravens. Not that aggressive but it worked out for them. Baltimore got lucky with that.

From my viewpoint, it is all luck and happenstance.

Maybe they sign Bates, maybe Turner proves to be the kicker. If they didn't think long field goals were important, that would not even entertained getting Bates They would have stood pat.

[chemiclord]

Personally, they should have four guys kicking around every offseason. At least. Because yes, as you said, there's a lot of luck involved. It's hard to say who "the guy" is going to be, because yes, they can come from anywhere. Which is why I'd argue the Lions should be casting a much larger net every offseason. It's not about anyone specific. Bates is one of many they could be entertaining; but the issue with Bates is that I suspect someone is going to offer him more than a tryout based simply on his UFL season. It is what it is. I'd bite the bullet personally, but that's just because I don't see Badgely as much more than replacement level. If Bates stunk it up, they could probably cut him and Badgley would still be there waiting. Or Turner, or someone roughly on Badgley's level.

And I think the numbers back me up on that. I know a lot of Lions fans have told themselves that he's Ol' Reliable from inside 45, and that's what makes him so valuable to this coaching staff... but it's not true. He's been mid since bouncing around in Detroit, he's been mid everywhere he's went. He's simply nothing worth hitching your wagon to, and replacing someone like him simply isn't nearly as hard as some fans are telling themselves it is.