Lions News

[Nick Pappageorgio]

And Scott Mitchell was the QB the Lions NFL record breaking offense (at the time)…then the Philly playoff game happened….Mitchell led that O because he was surrounded by talent, not because he was good.

One can draw parallels

[froot loops]

Yes, Goff is working with so many All Pro skill position players. He is much better than Scott Mitchell ever was and that team had better skill position players (two 1st team All Pros). But you're a guy who advocated drafting Malik Willis with the second pick (LOL), signing a 46 year old Tom Brady, you were the hype man for Deshaun Watson and thinks Baker Mayfield is the bee's knees.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

Jesus you’re a dick.

Why do you strive to be an ultra thin-skinned gaslighting asshole like your hero Chemi?

The reason so many of us question Goff’s skils is because we use our eyes instead of some stat block to evaluate. I know your viewpoint is that Goff’s cap number (he 4th highest in the entire league) is some sort of a bargain…but it’s not.

Goff will never be more than his OCs game plan and the players around him. He has repeatedly shown the inability to be dynamic and/or think for himself when things go the slightest bit poorly (see: the first half of the season…then the Carolina game). He wilts when there is not a clean pocket.

He is what he is….but if he refuses to lower his ridiculous cap number he should be shown the door. The team would perform as well or better with someone like Baker Mayfield next season at a fraction of the cost. Watson is 10 times the QB Goff is…even if he came back rusty (after 1.7 years absence), and even if your poor woke sensibilities can’t handle the hand-job thing (which, let’s face it is your main hang up….you obviously never watched him play when he was in Houston).

Is Goff as bad as Mitchell? Hell no…that was just an example of why your stat heavy analysis doesn’t always tell the story. But Goff is not nearly this misunderstood all pro QB in waiting….this awsome player you make him out to be. He’s not. People are correct to question his future in Detroit despite his (very recent) success this season.

And look…I didn’t even have to go back to last offseason and point out any of your stupid hot takes. Froot….you can discuss football (and even disagree with people) without being such a prick all the time.

[froot loops]

When you call someone thin skinned, it is projection. I can take all the arrows in here and have for many years. I have a thick skin, but there is no gaslighting, nothing in post #1877 is wrong, you are just mad I brought it up. You thought Malik Willis was a better option to take a chance on. The only one who likes to gaslight in here is you. My idol chemiclord? Ha, we have gotten in more arguments in this forum than anyone. But he has a thick skin and doesn't let it bother him.

You'll notice that Willis isn't starting tonight.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

The whole I am rubber you are glue part is cute….childish but cute.

And in the above post…you didn’t argue your point. You repeated your point…and then pointed out a bunch of times the crazy guy in the tin-foil hat has been wrong.

argue your point or shit all over someone else’s. That’s fine…but acting like anyone disagrees with you is either crazy or the village idiot is just gaslighting.

In your diatribe about Watson/Mayfield…I notice that you didn’t point out I called Walker as the #1 pick in January when you and you buddy were telling me “the real evaluators” were taking Thibs (who had 1 great game this season…and not much else).

Around this forum…I find that the people here (all of them..me included) are all correct about as often as a broken clock.

If you’d like, the next time I disagree with you I can go back and quote all the times you’ve been dead-ass wrong, in some childish attempt to discredit you.

But I won’t do that because I that because I think it’s boorish and stupid behavior. The lowest form of debate.

[chemiclord]

I don't think you know what "gaslighting" actually means.

Gaslighting isn't calling someone racist one time, or repeatedly disagreeing with someone on the same topic. It's closer to... oh, I don't know... repeatedly defending wealthy white owners over mostly black athletes and getting all indignant and pissy when someone thinks that seems a little bit racist, and harping about that insult and indignity over and over and over for months.

Not... that we know anyone here who behaves like that...

[Sanders Fan]

Baker Mayfield playing for the Lions? No thanks!

[DanO]

The Goff disrespect continues, I'm not sure if Jad is aware but this is one of the best if not the best offensive team that the Lions have had ever.

Yep! Goff has played really well this year to my surprise that's why I'm not advocating a QB in the first this year..

[froot loops]

Agreed, good.post DanO.

[froot loops]

My point with Goff has been pretty consistent all along. I believe accuracy on the short to intermediate routes is the more preferable trait than being able to run to extend plays. I think that is overblown as you always have to deliver from the pocket.

It's been said that Soccer has been the game of the future in America since 1972. I feel that way about the running quarterbacks being the future of the league since Elway and Young back in the day. We have had more than a few milquetoast pocket passers win Super Bowl titles, but we haven't seen a guy win a title that is known for his running (Young and Elway were pure pocket passers by the end). Nick thinks it's bad that a quarterback might be reliant on the players around him and the OC. I think having a title contending offense is fundamentally about having good to great players and a good OC surrounding the quarterback. Patrick Mahomes is great, but he also has had amazing targets and probably the best offensive coach of the modern era.

It's all very reminiscent of the anti-Stafford rantings, in those arguments people believed that Stafford was holding the Lions back and couldn't fathom that you might need more talent than what they had. This current offense is a bunch of spare parts and they hit on St. Brown, but most of these players were freely available. The offense is good because Goff and Ben Johnson have been able to make use of a depth guys like Khalif Raymond and Josh Reynolds.

[kayrone]

I wanted so much to hate Goff, and assumed that he was just going to hold down the fort for a couple of years until they draft the QB of the future. The dude is playing his ass off, he is relatively young, and seems like a good teammate/leader, I can’t help but like him. I don’t know much of anything about his cap number, but I can’t see any other reason to move on from him just yet. The fact that he doesn’t make a lot of stupid mistakes has made me wonder if he might be more than a stopgap. We shall see. Campbell doesn’t impress me as someone who sees the need for a big name superstar QB, seems just fine with riding with Goff for a while. IMO 🙂

[CGVT]

I wanted so much to hate Goff, and assumed that he was just going to hold down the fort for a couple of years until they draft the QB of the future. The dude is playing his ass off, he is relatively young, and seems like a good teammate/leader, I can’t help but like him. I don’t know much of anything about his cap number, but I can’t see any other reason to move on from him just yet. The fact that he doesn’t make a lot of stupid mistakes has made me wonder if he might be more than a stopgap. We shall see. Campbell doesn’t impress me as someone who sees the need for a big name superstar QB, seems just fine with riding with Goff for a while. IMO 🙂

Exactly.

And...Shut up, Karen! Nice avatar. Ha!

[froot loops]

I think the big flaw in Nick's argument is you can find someone half as cheap and get the same production. We have an fundamental disagreement on quarterback cap numbers. I assume any team that is a contender is going to be spending a lot on the quarterback. You have to have a staff that is adept at finding talent in the draft and in low level free agency. It's very early, but I think the Lions have that staff. I'm not trying to scavenge the scrap heap to find a cheaper alternative.

[chemiclord]

I wanted so much to hate Goff, and assumed that he was just going to hold down the fort for a couple of years until they draft the QB of the future. The dude is playing his ass off, he is relatively young, and seems like a good teammate/leader, I can’t help but like him. I don’t know much of anything about his cap number, but I can’t see any other reason to move on from him just yet. The fact that he doesn’t make a lot of stupid mistakes has made me wonder if he might be more than a stopgap. We shall see. Campbell doesn’t impress me as someone who sees the need for a big name superstar QB, seems just fine with riding with Goff for a while. IMO 🙂

I did hate Goff initially. I'm still not in love with the guy. He definitely has some significant limitations in his game. He's a real "game manager," and I don't use that term in the way that bitter fans use it to describe mediocre or worse QBs. He's a guy that reliably get the ball to the playmakers... but he isn't a playmaker in and of himself. Would I like better? Sure. Would it be impossible to upgrade from him? Not at all. The invocation of Patrick Mahomes is apt, because Goff essentially is Trent Green... in a lot of ways, in fact. So, I'm certainly not going to wring my hands in worry if the Lions did take a QB with one of their first round picks.

But... whoo boy, if Holmes does do that, he better hope that he hits big time on that pick, because actually upgrading from Goff would be a lot harder and a much bigger risk than some fans want to think it is. Dude is legitimately one of the Top 10 at the position right now. He looks to have taken the "next step" I was fairly certain he wasn't going to take. And when you consider just how massive some of the team's weaknesses are, the Lions better be absolutely certain that any QB they took in the first round would be the next generation defining quarterback in the NFL.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

FTR…I’m not advocating drafting a QB either. My mission statement has been consistent: Goff’s cap number it far to high for what he is.

when I think of a player who has the 4th highest cap number in the entire league…I think of a player who not only runs the O, but a guy who is a creator and is able to lift the performance of the guys around him when things start to sputter.

Is that Goff? Goff needs other players (and his OC) to lift him up….and this guy makes 16%of the lions total cap. 1/6 of all the money the lions have to spend on players is spent on Goff.

Think about it…when the OL has a rough week, the lions lose badly. When a few WRs can’t play….the offense doesn’t produce ANYTHING. If the OC isn’t drawing up wide open WRs….we lose. When Mahomes/Rogers are down a few WR, when the OL is having a rough day, or adversity otherwise strikes…those guys put the team on their back (Like Stafford used to).

And I have to laugh….the weeks that the O comes out flat and Goff does ZERO to change that, you all blame the D. You all lament this D which, on-paper, is one of the least talented groups in the league….didn’t do enough to support the QB.

You can’t pay chophouse prices for round steak and remain competitive for long. I’m not against keeping Goff….but the cap number needs to decrease by 10m. Guys like Goff….they always turn back into tannehill, even if they have a few spots of brightness.