Lions News

[kreton]

Where do you keep on saying 15 million? He was due.10 million next year, not 15. Get your facts straight.

I think the 15 million is the money per year Hock is expecting. Top 5 salary is 14-15 million per year for a TE

[froot loops]

He was locked in for $10 million next year.

[froot loops]

It might not be BS. If the Lions were 6-1 and Hock had performed exactly the same, and was expecting top 5 TE money, and they were offered a 2nd and a 3rd I think they still pull the trigger.

Holy shit you will buy any shit the Lion franchise will shovel to you.

They aren't trading Hock at the deadline being 6-1 for two pick swaps. Period.

[froot loops]

That would have made the beyond stupid Diggs trade look good in comparison.

[Mainevent]

How do you know?

Some guy got cut in middle school and is seen as the greatest NBA player of all time.

No HE IS NOT JORDAN. The example is that I don't think he ever was, or would ever be, used properly here. KC, Philly, BAL, etc... he would look a lot better. Oh BTW, when healthy Irv Smith Jr. was doing better then Hock and he is not as good as Hock. They just do a better job of using TEs there and he will look better there.

It was foolish to draft him #8 when you had no plan to use the guy. I have no problem with the deal. It is just Lions luck that he would go to a division rival.

He's not a scrub or a bum. Detroit fans love to kick guys going out the door

This doesn't really have anything to do with my post. The whole point is if you measured NFL players by their performance against the Lions D over the years, a lot of guys would look like world beaters. Hockenson's potential performance against Detroit doesn't change that equation nor his value around the league.

TJ is a good player. Perhaps he was underutilized or incorrectly utilized in Detroit and we'll see him breakout in Minnesota with a guy like Jefferson drawing attention away from him.. The Athletic guys said TJ was #8 in terms of value per target 2 years ago, #8 last year and #13 so far this year among TEs. So those stats jive with the eye test that he's good not great. And he wants top TE money - that's $15M+/year. So does that make sense?

I'm not a fan of overpaying guys that aren't worth it, but I'm also not a fan of creating holes that need to be filled, . They could have kept TJ and let him walk as a FA while figuring out his replacement. Or they could have traded him in the offseason. I suspect they could have gotten a 3rd rounder from somebody before the draft, but maybe not.

[chemiclord]

The trade itself isn't the issue. It basically boils down to a 2nd round pick for Hockenson (the rest really is just more jockeying around later round pick position). That's... actually a pretty damn good get for a TE that is "good but not great."

All the bullshit swirling around it is the problem.

[froot loops]

A running theme of the Pride of Detroit podcasts is they felt this regime didn't believe in Hockenson especially in relation to the previous regime. They had mentioned how the practices with Patricia featured him much more and he would dominate. Erick Schiltt would mention a lot on how they just didn't feature Hockenson in many plays. I don't observe practices or watch enough game tape to know what the problem was but there were times when they had to focus on him and he looked good. And then other times he was a ghost.

[jaadam4]

I hope he sucks for Minny.

[JGSpartan]

I highly doubt he sucks there.

[Futureshock]

This doesn't really have anything to do with my post. The whole point is if you measured NFL players by their performance against the Lions D over the years, a lot of guys would look like world beaters. Hockenson's potential performance against Detroit doesn't change that equation nor his value around the league.

TJ is a good player. Perhaps he was underutilized or incorrectly utilized in Detroit and we'll see him breakout in Minnesota with a guy like Jefferson drawing attention away from him.. The Athletic guys said TJ was #8 in terms of value per target 2 years ago, #8 last year and #13 so far this year among TEs. So those stats jive with the eye test that he's good not great. And he wants top TE money - that's $15M+/year. So does that make sense?

I'm not a fan of overpaying guys that aren't worth it, but I'm also not a fan of creating holes that need to be filled, . They could have kept TJ and let him walk as a FA while figuring out his replacement. Or they could have traded him in the offseason. I suspect they could have gotten a 3rd rounder from somebody before the draft, but maybe not.

"TJ is a good player." Okay cool. Your previous post made it seem like he was a JAG or bum. Around here people swing way too far and go to extremes. It's exhausting seeing people crown a team one week and pulling out tiki torches the next and kicking guys in the az when they're traded away. I know that first part has never been your modus operendi though.

[Futureshock]

A running theme of the Pride of Detroit podcasts is they felt this regime didn't believe in Hockenson especially in relation to the previous regime. They had mentioned how the practices with Patricia featured him much more and he would dominate. Erick Schiltt would mention a lot on how they just didn't feature Hockenson in many plays. I don't observe practices or watch enough game tape to know what the problem was but there were times when they had to focus on him and he looked good. And then other times he was a ghost.

Know thy self.

My question is similar to the BS they spewed on Pleasant as he was let go. WHY DID IT TAKE THIS LONG TO FIGURE THIS OUT?

It's like when an employee hits something with a vehicle or something and says, "I didn't see iit." That's way worse because you should have saw it. What if there was a person there?

In this case, they knew they weren't going to use him in the way his skill set allows. They saw (or dam sure should have) their DBs not jamming Hill and Waddle all game and then they have this fake outrage after the game. WTF Campbell. Why are you standing on the sideline looking at? You don't think it's your place to say anything in-game? WTF? Them firing Pleasant for that is also an indictment on themselves.

Dan Miller said Sheila gave them the next year thing, BUT, he still needs to win some games. At this point I think he should not.

[Futureshock]

Lions DC Aaron Glenn: ‘We lost a damn-good coach’ in Aubrey Pleasant

By Jeremy Reisman

Pleasant was fired after the Lions failed to follow the proposed game plan against the Miami Dolphins. Campbell and Glenn said in the week leading up to the game that they wanted to play physical at the line and disrupt receivers’ routes. For most of the game, Dolphins receivers were given unabated lanes into the teeth of their defense. The result: Tua Tagovailoa completed 81 percent of his passes for 382 yards and three touchdowns.

Sooooooo none of these dweebs that get paid to ask them about this crap just not decide to ask why this wasn't covered in-game? Why did it take them to lose the dam game to wonder why it wasn't happening? That's BS and again,an indictment on Campbell and even more so on Glenn

[Mainevent]

The trade itself isn't the issue. It basically boils down to a 2nd round pick for Hockenson (the rest really is just more jockeying around later round pick position). That's... actually a pretty damn good get for a TE that is "good but not great."

All the bullshit swirling around it is the problem.

They gave up what could very well be the top pick in the 4th round That is a valuable pick - top 100 give or take depending upon comp picks handed out. So it really is a net value of more like a 3rd.

[froot loops]

Maybe it was addressed and it didn't change resulting in the firing. Who knows. It has to get better, you only get so many firings without results. I think this is his second mulligan, I'm not sure he gets a thrid.

I remember last year early in the season they had some miscommunication issues in the secondary. The most infamous example was Bobby Price missing the call that resulted in the Lamar Jackson long pass that set up the Tucker field goal. As the season went on, that stuff started to get cleaned up. The time between then and now has been a full regression in the secondary.

Whether it was Pleasant, Glenn or Campbell's fault we will never know, but to me it was more than a talent issue, you can have a talent deficiency but still do your assignments.

[wcfwtf]

Maybe it’s just bullshit but in his Friday pressers he always sounds confident and believes in his players abilities to do the job.
This tells me he does believe it and that coaching was the problem.