OT: Technology and Geek Stuff Thread

[Kansas]

^^^high much?^^^

[LightninBoy]

Struggling with Surround Sound and real impact.

OK I am from the old school of a CD Player connected to an EQ connected to a Circuit Breaker Busting AMP (AMPS) connected to HUGE floorstanding speakers in a 12 x 20 room. I did start out with a turntable and cassette deck but I really hate to admit how old I am now.

I have been fiddling with surround sound for years now and I am still unimpressed, I figure it is my damaged ears or the flattening these fricking new receivers do to the sounds.

Long story short if I turn the receiver to stereo enhanced (7.2) I like it, when I move the receiver to movie mode or music mode I am just left there with woody but no climax.

I just threw some bones at a new Klipsch RSW-10d sub and while it is incredible and fun to flog during movies and music mode I am still bored.

When I started selling Adcom and Klipsch while in Active duty army at night at weekends I spent all my commission on my own equipment. I ended up with an Adcom GFA555 power amp (replaced by two Denon Mono Block amps, one for each speaker), Sony ES 5 carousel CD player, and two Klipsch Forte II speakers all connected with Monster cable. I would turn those mothers up and I think I would trickle down my leg in pure enjoyment.

Now I have I am trying to get into surround sound and I am just going nuts.

#1. I was brought up if you have to turn the dial past 9 o'clock (11 if you are drunk or impressing fellow idiots) you need a new amp. Now I am at -10db and wanting a lot more (which if you start at -70db takes a long fucking time to get there).

#2. While my bowels churn with the RSW-10d set at 0db, in LFE mode or 110hz crossover, I don't FEEL it.

I have a decent AV receiver (Denon AVR-3808), I've done the the tuning and tweaked it even though the remote is a nightmare to learn. Still not happy, I went an bought a cheaper simpler receiver yamaha V665 and honestly same effect. The Denon is spec's as much stronger but the volume is really the same at -10db.

I have 2 subs phased correctly now for diarreha inducing lows but still no impact.


Anybody else going thru the same thing or am I just whining too much.

Couple guesses. Guess #1, room modes.

You may have room modes that are canceling some low end frequencies. You say you have two subs which is much better than 1, so you may have already accounted for this.

If not - Modes are a function of your room dimensions, sub location, and listening location. Typically, the only thing you can change in that set of variables is the sub location. So one experiment you can try is to go back to using one sub, then walk around the room with some bass heavy music playing. If you get to a spot where the bass is much better, more balanced and impactful then your normal listening position, then you have room mode issues.

This can be a bitch to fix, but you've already done the single best thing - get another sub. The next step is to position them. Rule of thumb is to position them in opposite corners. But here are some more informative articles:

http://stereos.about.com/od/optimizingperformance/a/multiplesubs.htm

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/two-subs

Guess #2: Main speakers are to small
You didn't mention what your main speakers are so I'm really going out on a limb here, but you may be using the cute and tiny speakers that are often packaged into surround systems. In particular I'm guessing this maybe the case given that you have the subs crossed over at 110hz which is pretty high. Is that because the main speakers can't reach down to 80? I've seen frequency responses of some of these systems (*cough* Bose *cough*) where entire frequencies in the 100 - 200 hz range were simply dropped because the tiny mains couldn't reach down to this level and the sub couldn't reach up to it. I've had best luck with mains that can reach down to 80 and do it with authority. These are speakers that mate easily with a wide variety of subs.

Guess #3: You might be a seperates kinda guy (like me)
Whimpy receivers might not be your thing. Given your history preferring the adcom and the denon mono block amps, I'm thinking that the current provided by the typical receiver just might not cut it for you. For guys like you (us) you need to step up to "seperates" meaning seperate components for preamp/surround processer and amp (or amps). Myself, I have a pre-pro feeding 5 seperate 100 watt amps, one for each speaker. But that's a bit extreme. More common is a single amp with 5-7 channels. Your receiver probably has pre-amp outs that will let you add one of these external amps easily. Lots of folks will use an external amp to run the mains (and maybe center) and just use the internal receiver amp to run the surround speakers.

Part of this also be your mains. Even if they are large enough to hit 80hz, they may be low efficiency (86db or lower). Receiver may struggle with these types of speakers. You mentioned Klipsch, however, which tend to be relatively high efficiency.

You asked do I go through the same thing? In a way, yes. I have a distinct mode around 50hz at my listening position that I cannot get rid of. But I made the mistake of blowing my entire subwoofer budget (actually at the time my entire speaker budget) on one sub. Live and learn.

[-Deborah-]

Impressive, Tom!

[LightninBoy]

I know right. Just when you thought I couldn't possibly reveal myself to be a bigger dweeb.

[-Deborah-]

lol! Not at all. Your knowledge on this is just impressive.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Having met you, I don't think you can be a bigger dweeb!

[LightninBoy]

Having met you, I don't think you can be a bigger dweeb!

My one and only consolation is that I'm cool compared to the draft dweebs.

One other thing I thought of, mwhsg, is that you didn't mention what you were listening to - movies? music? I've given up trying to listen to normal stereo music in some contrived surround mode. For a while, it may be interesting, but I end up always going back to normal 2ch stereo mode - especially if I'm settling in for a serious listening session. This is definitely personal preference though. But my goal is to reproduce the music as close as possible to what the artist and producer was hearing in the studio.

Movies of course are different as they are mixed and recorded in multiple channels. Likewise, the musical exception is music produced specifically for surround sound systems. Here, I'm thinking of DVD Audio and Super Audio CD (SACD), both of which are niche formats. Surround mixes in these formats can be stunning - but the key is that its not some computer processing trick that your receiver is doing to parse a 2 channel source into 5 or 7 channels. Instead, the music is recorded in multiple channels.

[-Deborah-]

I bought a Blackberry Bold since my move to the Detroit area. I love it! Does anyone have one? I have a question about email...

I've configured my email on the BB, but for the most part, I check my email on my PC. So say I receive 10 emails and I read them on my PC. They still say unread on my BB until I read or delete them there, which is double duty. Is there a way around that?

Rommy, I went with T-Mobile. They price matched AT&T on the Bold and are giving me a 15% corporate discount on the monthly rate. And their monthly rates are pretty good to begin with.

[The Ken]

I bought a Blackberry Bold since my move to the Detroit area. I love it! Does anyone have one? I have a question about email...

I've configured my email on the BB, but for the most part, I check my email on my PC. So say I receive 10 emails and I read them on my PC. They still say unread on my BB until I read or delete them there, which is double duty. Is there a way around that?

Rommy, I went with T-Mobile. They price matched AT&T on the Bold and are giving me a 15% corporate discount on the monthly rate. And their monthly rates are pretty good to begin with.

How are you connecting to your email

POP3/IMAP
Internet
or BES

[-Deborah-]

I'm using POP...guess that's why, eh?

[Sweatpants Murphy]

I bought a Blackberry Bold since my move to the Detroit area. I love it! Does anyone have one? I have a question about email...

I've configured my email on the BB, but for the most part, I check my email on my PC. So say I receive 10 emails and I read them on my PC. They still say unread on my BB until I read or delete them there, which is double duty. Is there a way around that?

Rommy, I went with T-Mobile. They price matched AT&T on the Bold and are giving me a 15% corporate discount on the monthly rate. And their monthly rates are pretty good to begin with.

it'll do that unless you use BES, which costs more per month ($35 at T-mobile) where do you work to get that 15%?

[Coop]

Deb - POP with iphone is the exact same way...there's no synch that tells your home PC you've read them when it downloads the same 10 mails.

With Exchange, it's different (at least for the iphone) because you're pulling directly from the mailbox on the Exchange server. I don't have any experience with Blackberry and Exchange so I'm not much help to you there.

[-Deborah-]

Yeah it makes sense. Sweat, I work for a large (90,000+ employees) consulting company.

[Coop]

Are they not running Exchange? Is it an M$ shop?

[-Deborah-]

It's my personal email I'm retrieving.