All the Other Games Thread

[Trickalicious]

Yeah, it's that time of year. In the past this is when we started looking to see what teams needed to lose so the Lions might be able to sneak into a wild card spot. Now we are looking to see who needs to lose for the Lions to win the division and possibly get the top seed and a bye or who might be a better team to face in the playoffs.

In that light, I think, as much as it pains me to do it, I am rooting for the Cowboys to beat the 49rs while they are banged up.

I feel dirty for that and will go take a shower now.

I hope your shower is haunted by the echo of "heeeere we goooo", but in Brad Allen's voice.

But you're not wrong.

[chemiclord]

"1. The umpire was ten feet away focusing on the qb. You can see him in the frame. It was incompetence at its highest level, I saw it 3000 miles in real time on a dinky phone screen."

The photo I saw that showed the facemask, the ref at the backline was blocked by two other players behind the QB....It didnt look like that guy could see the penalty.

Not sure how he couldn't see the penalty.

Or this guy.

Gav5e_CWgAATyww.jpg

[froot loops]

It is very easy to use replay to overturn it. This play was low hanging fruit. The NFL had an NFC championship game where the outcome was changed 7 years ago because of referee incompetence that could have been overturned using replay. There's no reason not to be able to use it 7 years later. There are certain things that can't be solved by replay, but this definitely could be.

If the ref's whole responsibility is to watch the pocket and he claims he couldn't he was obstructed by players, he is failing at his job. Move the feet. Chemiclord posted a picture that sheds light on that bs excuse.

[LightninBoy]

I know I'm on an island here, but I thought the replacement refs were better in the sense that they didn't have quite the same bias for "high profile" teams like the regular refs did. Don't get me wrong, they still sucked, but at least they didn't suck in such depressingly predictable ways (Green Bay would have never gotten screwed by the regular refs, for example).

I'm kinda on that island with you. It was weird to see the media react to the replacement refs. Suddenly they highlighted *every* questionable or bad call - even went so far as to call it a "safety" issue. Gimme a break. All the while I'm watching the games thinking - "I really don't see much of a difference". The media coverage really went off the rails when GB (the darlings of the NFL at the time), got screwed by a controversial call.

[El Axe]

I'm guessing that none of you has been a paid official and/or had to evaluate officials. I have worked as an official and had to evaluate officials for years (different sport, but the principles are the same as are the complaints by fans). Good officials have a variety of responsibilities with their eyes. The good ones don't follow the ball like a fan because fans would miss most penalties.

In that first picture, referee #3, if he is even responsible for looking at the tackle, can't actually see the hand on the mask. In that second picture, you can clearly see that that official's line of sight is not to the ball carrier at all -- his responsibility is elsewhere. Remember, too, that the hand was on the mask for a fraction of a second, so all it would take is for an official to have his eyes at the blockers behind them for a fraction of a second to miss the facemask.

Did they miss the call? Yes. Are they incompetent? No. Did they make a mistake as a team? Yes. Are they incompetent? No.

Incompetence implies that they didn't do their jobs or they didn't correctly apply the rules. Referees miss calls and make decisions that don't work out in terms of what they're looking at and when they're looking, but incompetence is a different level and this doesn't rise to it.

Being imperfect human beings and making mistakes does not directly imply incompetence. Believe me, as a former coach I am well aware of the frustration caused by referee mistakes.

The NFL needs to fix when instant replay is used.

(p.s. Earlier today in the UM-MSU game, the officials made what I would say is an "incompetent" call. UM offense went to the line immediately with the same personnel and meant to run a play without allowing MSU to substitute in situational personnel. The official didn't allow UM to snap the ball, incorrectly allowing MSU to make their substitutions. This is a more egregious of an officiating mistake than not seeing someone's hand on a face mask for a half second. It may have had less of an impact on the game, but it was an incorrect interpretation of the rules)

[chemiclord]

Stop making excuses for shitty people doing a shitty job.

[DanO]

I'm guessing that none of you has been a paid official and/or had to evaluate officials. I have worked as an official and had to evaluate officials for years (different sport, but the principles are the same as are the complaints by fans). Good officials have a variety of responsibilities with their eyes. The good ones don't follow the ball like a fan because fans would miss most penalties.

In that first picture, referee #3, if he is even responsible for looking at the tackle, can't actually see the hand on the mask. In that second picture, you can clearly see that that official's line of sight is not to the ball carrier at all -- his responsibility is elsewhere. Remember, too, that the hand was on the mask for a fraction of a second, so all it would take is for an official to have his eyes at the blockers behind them for a fraction of a second to miss the facemask.

Did they miss the call? Yes. Are they incompetent? No. Did they make a mistake as a team? Yes. Are they incompetent? No.

Incompetence implies that they didn't do their jobs or they didn't correctly apply the rules. Referees miss calls and make decisions that don't work out in terms of what they're looking at and when they're looking, but incompetence is a different level and this doesn't rise to it.

Being imperfect human beings and making mistakes does not directly imply incompetence. Believe me, as a former coach I am well aware of the frustration caused by referee mistakes.

The NFL needs to fix when instant replay is used.

(p.s. Earlier today in the UM-MSU game, the officials made what I would say is an "incompetent" call. UM offense went to the line immediately with the same personnel and meant to run a play without allowing MSU to substitute in situational personnel. The official didn't allow UM to snap the ball, incorrectly allowing MSU to make their substitutions. This is a more egregious of an officiating mistake than not seeing someone's hand on a face mask for a half second. It may have had less of an impact on the game, but it was an incorrect interpretation of the rules)

Nice post EA.

[Mainevent]

Agreed that if the ref can’t actually see the hand on the face mask he shouldn’t throw the flag - if they only think it’s happening that’s how you get Trey Flowers phantom hands to the face or Devin Taylor face mask calls.

I think the bigger issue is the NFL continually protecting the refs egos by not letting a sky judge help them out with obvious missed calls. Having the on field ref run over to the sideline and watch replays a 5 inch screen id still one of the dumbest things they continue to roll out.

[CGVT]

Agreed that if the ref can’t actually see the hand on the face mask he shouldn’t throw the flag - if they only think it’s happening that’s how you get Trey Flowers phantom hands to the face or Devin Taylor face mask calls.

I think the bigger issue is the NFL continually protecting the refs egos by not letting a sky judge help them out with obvious missed calls. Having the on field ref run over to the sideline and watch replays a 5 inch screen id still one of the dumbest things they continue to roll out.

I said that about not actually seeing the hand on the mask earlier, it was a bit tongue in cheek, but that is the reality. Just because it looks like he grabbed the mask doesn't mean he actually did. Of course in this case he did.

I wouldn't want them making holding calls from the booth, though. Where do you draw the line?

[chemiclord]

It is very easy to use replay to overturn it. This play was low hanging fruit. The NFL had an NFC championship game where the outcome was changed 7 years ago because of referee incompetence that could have been overturned using replay. There's no reason not to be able to use it 7 years later. There are certain things that can't be solved by replay, but this definitely could be.

If the ref's whole responsibility is to watch the pocket and he claims he couldn't he was obstructed by players, he is failing at his job. Move the feet. Chemiclord posted a picture that sheds light on that bs excuse.

The entire issue is that the refs excuse isn't "Oh, different refs have different responsibilities." The excuse was that "no one saw it." The correct follow up to that is "How did no one see that?" Which is the question the NFL doesn't want to answer, because then they'd have to admit that their officiating is either A) shitty, B) terribly trained, or C) is not being given the tools needed to do the job right.

Because no officiating crew should have missed something so very blatant with perfectly clear sight lines for no fewer than two sets of eyes and the bevy of camera angles available to them.

And with all respect to El Axe, the NFL officials have no small amount of responsibility for the mess that officiating in the NFL is right now. Quite literally every attempt to make their jobs easier and/or more accurate has been met with petulant pushback from the very refs its trying to help. Hell, the primary reason the challenge system is such a mess is because officials threw a temper tantrum all those years ago at the idea of someone in a booth overriding their absolute authority, and so the current method was the best compromise the league and players could get them to agree to.

[Trickalicious]

It starts with the novel that is the NFL rulebook. You could replace all of these striped narcissists with 90's technology and catch enough penalties to prevent all-out anarchy. The chapters on what is reviewable and not reviewable, red flags, timeouts lost/kept, would be obsolete. Next, how about stopping by Harbor Freight to grab a dozen picture frame laser guides to show everyone where the damn line of scrimmage is and where the ball should be downed every play. Now delete the paragraphs on neutral zones, end zones, first downs, touchdowns and out-of-bounds. After Harbor Freight and a nice lunch at Panda Express, drop into that vet clinic next to PetSmart and throw some of those "where's Fluffy" chips in the footballs. Immediately fire the two twats that are needed to decide if a field goal made it through the sticks or the two striped pylons needed to decide if a ball made it inside the orange ones.

Problem is, replacing human yellow flag dispensers with Go Pros is that it would be too perfect. The rules are convoluted and overly subjective. EVERY penalty would be seen on every play. So, take out the stupid ones. Getting a handful of shirt is holding. Why? Two feet in-bounds for a catch. Why? Horse collar tackle/high tackle/low tackle/drop hip tackle. Why? Player safety? Okay sure, except every team is a walking MASH unit by week 4 as is. Granted, I haven't been able to find reliable statistics on how many facemask injuries there were prior to facemasks on helmets. They could go back to simpler times or make everyone wear a Mario Kart helmet. Either way, the rules are too ridiculous for a group of emotionally driven part-time divas to officiate properly. It's an impossible job for the enlarged prostate community to handle.

Many analysts annoyingly compare football to war. So, throw some technology out there and adopt a much simpler doctrine for rules of engagement. The Geneva Convention and Law of Armed Conflict should be good until something better is written. Just don't put the UN in the review booth.

[foxhopper]

Jesus, I never thought I would see the day people here cared so much about Minnie getting screwed.

[edindetroit]

Jesus, I never thought I would see the day people here cared so much about Minnie getting screwed.

They don't care they just like to argue.

[Trickalicious]

They don't care they just like to argue.

No they don't.

[CGVT]

Jacksonville giving the packers a game.

13-10 at the half

Love is banged up a bit.