Detroit Tigers

[mason reese]

All the time when the Tigers had a big payroll and finished with winning records but fell short of winning a championship, guys like Coop wanted them to shed payroll and go with the young guys. It was supposed to be fun watching the young guys compete and grow up.

My assertion was that rarely happens if ever. Normally the team stinks and it's a hard watch. You would have to go back to the early 80s for a season like that. But I do believe this team fits the bill, they have a terrible record but they have 3 young core hitters that are raking with some decent young pitchers. Tork, Greene and Carpenter are raking.

Tork is even above replacement level now.

[jaadam4]

Tork, Greene and Carpenter are raking.

Having Greene in the lineup got Tork going. It is pretty exciting having them starting to flourish. I just hope once they start hitting their stride we have the right GM in place and the owner lets them spend. Buying a team isn’t a winning model but neither is letting status quo set in. It’s got to be both.

[Whitley]

Parker Meadows called up and will start tonight. Carson Kelly s good defense little hit little power C will start too.

Haase was DFA for Kelly

[Blue Lagoon58]

Having Greene in the lineup got Tork going. It is pretty exciting having them starting to flourish. I just hope once they start hitting their stride we have the right GM in place and the owner lets them spend. Buying a team isn’t a winning model but neither is letting status quo set in. It’s got to be both.

That GM is already here.

[whatever_gong82]

That GM is already here.

We lost at home tonight to the Cubs, 7-6.

And we're still in a crappy division, and about 11 games under .500 at 57-68, 8 games out of First, and going nowhere fast this season.

[Blue Lagoon58]

We lost at home tonight to the Cubs, 7-6.

And we're still in a crappy division, and about 11 games under .500 at 57-68, 8 games out of First, and going nowhere fast this season.

Soooooo, what's your point again? Everything you listed is better than expectations, so you agree??

[chemiclord]

I think the problem is where expectations are at.

[ghandi]

We lost at home tonight to the Cubs, 7-6.

And we're still in a crappy division, and about 11 games under .500 at 57-68, 8 games out of First, and going nowhere fast this season.

The Tigers are 25-15 against this pathetic division and 32-53 against the rest of baseball.....I dont know if they've actually made much progress or not, or if it is just the result of playing such terrible teams......4 of the 5 worst teams in the AL are in the Tigers division.

[jaadam4]

Greene was down last night but Tork raked and Carpenter crushed as well. There’s actually promise here!!

[jaadam4]

I still wish we’d have went Wyatt Langford but I’m all aboard the Max Clark bandwagon now.

[whatever_gong82]

Soooooo, what's your point again? Everything you listed is better than expectations, so you agree??

I saw some extremely talented teams from 2006-2016 that were at best, talented enough to get to the World Series (and lose, but that discussion is for another day.)

This current team is sort of like the 2004-2005 Tigers, bad enough not to contend, but they have some pieces on the roster that if they develop properly, might prove to be very good.

Our current GM also isn't Dave Dombrowski, who went through the fires working first with the Chicago White Sox under the late Roland Hemond, and then the Montreal Expos, winning (and then reloading) with the Marlins, having a good run here in Detroit, winning a championship in Boston, and now making the Phillies a championship contender.

We'll see how good our current GM is, but right now, until Chris Ilitch proves to me that he isn't a cheapskate and shows confidence in his GM and lets him make trades and transactions to better the Tigers, I'm still not the slightest bit impressed with the team right now.

[whatever_gong82]

The Tigers are 25-15 against this pathetic division and 32-53 against the rest of baseball.....I dont know if they've actually made much progress or not, or if it is just the result of playing such terrible teams......4 of the 5 worst teams in the AL are in the Tigers division.

There's an article in today's Athletic that describes how putrid the AL Central is this year.

I'll probably post it on here in another few minutes after I glance at it.

EDIT: The article actually was first published yesterday. I'm about to post it here in a few minutes.

[whatever_gong82]

https://theathletic.com/4792047/2023...-division-mlb/

The worst division in MLB history? Welcome to a weekend in the AL Central

The Athletic MLB Staff

Aug 21, 2023

By Zack Meisel, Cody Stavenhagen and Aaron Gleeman

CLEVELAND — They stood in a triangle, each defender gazing up at the night sky.

Will Brennan raised his hands to indicate he couldn’t locate the baseball, which he later termed “a hopeless feeling.” Andrés Giménez, back turned toward the plate, seemed convinced an outfielder had a better chance. Oscar Gonzalez rushed in from his post in right field to camp under the ball.

Instead, it plummeted to the ground, 10 feet behind Gonzalez.

Andy Ibañez, he of a lifetime .293 on-base percentage, the guy who dismissively spun his bat into the dirt after what he thought was another fruitless swing, scurried to second with an RBI double.

Welcome to another weekend in the AL Central, the home of the youngest, the least experienced and the sorriest this league has to offer, where on-field ineptitude may be sinking to historic depths. The 2023 quintet is on pace to produce the worst combined record of MLB’s divisional era, which began in 1969.

The Guardians’ outfield gaffe gave the Tigers a 1-0 lead in the second game of a doubleheader Friday, but Cleveland stormed back in the eighth inning against a couple of Tigers relief nomads. After a long day of baseball, the teams split the twin bill.

“We were miserable for six hours,” Cleveland manager Terry Francona said. “And we got to be happy for, like, 10 minutes.”


The Guardians’ ersatz pursuit of the Twins for first place in the AL Central maintained its faint heartbeat, the 1-3 weekend leaving the Guardians six games out of the division lead. It wouldn’t be right to call it a heated competition — more like a room temperature division race.

“There are days it feels (heated),” said Guardians president Chris Antonetti. “And there are days where I think we recognize we have a long way to continue to build to where we want to be as a championship team. We certainly haven’t done our part yet to put ourselves in a position to make it feel that way, but I’m not sure the Twins have, either.”

Before this year, the 2018 season held the record for the worst division in history, when — you guessed it — the AL Central mustered a combined winning percentage of only .436. This year’s AL Central has a combined winning percentage of .433. Four of the division’s five teams have losing records, and they have combined for a run differential of minus-334. Only the fourth-place White Sox ranked higher than 15th in Opening Day payroll.

In Chicago, that team has suffered a cultural implosion, its season defined by its struggling shortstop absorbing a right hook to the face amid a brouhaha in Cleveland.

In last place, the 40-86 Royals have baseball’s second-worst record, ahead of only the dismal Oakland Athletics. Even as shortstop Bobby Witt Jr. plays like a budding star, the Royals have not had a .500 record since 2016 and have found few signs of hope. MLB Pipeline recently ranked the Royals’ farm system 29th out of 30 organizations, and the Royals do not have a single Top 100 prospect.

continued..

[whatever_gong82]

And as for the division leader?

The 65-60 Twins hold a six-game edge on the Guardians. Minnesota’s lineup has struggled, ranking eighth in OPS and ninth in runs per game among AL teams. But when compared to their four division rivals — the league’s lowest-scoring non-Oakland lineups — the Twins resemble a powerhouse, even though they might break MLB’s all-time strikeout record.

In Chicago, that team has suffered a cultural implosion, its season defined by its struggling shortstop absorbing a right hook to the face amid a brouhaha in Cleveland.

In last place, the 40-86 Royals have baseball’s second-worst record, ahead of only the dismal Oakland Athletics. Even as shortstop Bobby Witt Jr. plays like a budding star, the Royals have not had a .500 record since 2016 and have found few signs of hope. MLB Pipeline recently ranked the Royals’ farm system 29th out of 30 organizations, and the Royals do not have a single Top 100 prospect.

Yet even when they falter, it hardly matters. Seven of the Twins’ last 10 losses have come on days when the Guardians have also lost, thus increasing Minnesota’s chances of winning the division by simply erasing another game from the respective schedules.

In terms of vibes, it’s like a basketball team going into the four corners offense before the invention of the shot clock. Or perhaps a prisoner crossing the days off a makeshift calendar carved into their cell wall. If every time you fall down, the person behind you also falls down, it’s hard to be worried about losing a race.

That could play at least a small part in explaining why neither the Twins nor the Guardians seemed motivated to act like legitimate contenders at the Aug. 1 trade deadline. The Guardians, despite being within one game of the division lead — and yet still below .500 — traded away Aaron Civale, Josh Bell and Amed Rosario, which sparked unrest in the clubhouse. That convinced Antonetti and GM Mike Chernoff to fly to Houston the morning after the deadline to smooth things over with frustrated players.

Minnesota failing to make any trades at the deadline took people in the game by surprise given the season-long need for bullpen help and a right-handed-hitting corner outfielder. Those are two seemingly easy boxes to check inexpensively, yet the Twins stood pat — and watched their odds of winning the division actually increase.

Why? Because the other four teams were sellers.

continued...

[whatever_gong82]

“Certainly, we’re very much aware of what every other club is doing,” said Twins president of baseball operations Derek Falvey. “But it doesn’t change our process, necessarily. Had (Cleveland) gone in a different direction and acquired two or three different players, would that have changed our process? I can’t say it would. I would say our view was, how do we best put this team in position to succeed this year and beyond?”

In other words, winning the AL Central in 2023 is important, but it can probably be accomplished without trading away any prospects who might help them win the division in 2024 or 2025.

The Guardians boast the league’s best starting pitcher ERA since the All-Star break, a feat made more impressive considering their rotation is Noah Syndergaard and four rookies. And this isn’t your older sibling’s Noah Syndergaard. It’s a lost soul with long, blonde hair masquerading as a former ace.

The Guardians flipped Amed Rosario to the Dodgers for Syndergaard less than a week before the deadline, knowing they needed another healthy body in the rotation. But from Syndergaard’s first day with the club, he’s been searching for answers and sounding like the least confident member of the pitching staff.

After a lousy outing last Wednesday in Cincinnati, the lone veteran in Cleveland’s rotation delivered a jarringly candid assessment of his struggles:
“Same s—, different day. It feels like I’m pitching on ice skates. Every time I try to use my legs, they slip out from underneath me. … It’s hard to enjoy anything else in my life when my one true love of baseball — I’m not having a whole lot of fun right now.”

Cleveland approached the season with a rotation of Shane Bieber, Triston McKenzie, Cal Quantrill, Civale and Zach Plesac. None of the five has pitched for the club this month. McKenzie has made two starts all season. Quantrill has battled shoulder and ERA swelling. Bieber has missed the last six weeks with a balky elbow. Plesac has spent most of the season at Triple A.


And yet, it’s the team’s offense and bullpen that have hindered its bid for a second straight division title. Young hitters haven’t taken steps forward. No reliever has been immune to an occasional untimely meltdown. The slash-and-dash style that spurred the club to 92 wins last year has vanished. Their 89 home runs are 24 fewer than any other team has hit.

A couple weeks ago, Ramon Laureano was designated for assignment by baseball’s poster child for incompetence, the A’s. Kole Calhoun was twiddling his thumbs at Triple-A Oklahoma City. Now, they bat in the middle of Francona’s lineup most nights.

“That may not be the ideal place for them,” Francona said, “but that’s kind of where we are.”

Neither Bell nor catcher Mike Zunino, the club’s two free-agent additions over the winter, survived the season with the franchise. Zunino was booted from the roster in mid-June. Bell was traded about two hours before first pitch on Aug. 1 — and right as the deadline buzzer sounded — as he was in the middle of a card game with teammates in the visitors clubhouse in Houston.

Later that night, the Guardians were no-hit by Framber Valdez.


continued..