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[Mainevent]

What? Average yards per carry?

Edit: forgot that he played half a season in Arizona. He’s still behind Lamar Jackson by a good bit.

You’re right, my bad. I scrolled down a little too fast and missed Lamar. Dobbs leading the NFC though

[chemiclord]

The issue with a QB like Dobbs or Fields is less their running yards and more their ability to negate negative plays and extend plays.

This Lions defense really needs negative plays to put opponents in long down and distances, and the secondary is not very good at maintaining coverage over time. So QBs that can do those things are likely to have a very good game against the Lions... provided they and their receivers can execute.

[mason reese]

The issue with a QB like Dobbs or Fields is less their running yards and more their ability to negate negative plays and extend plays.

This Lions defense really needs negative plays to put opponents in long down and distances, and the secondary is not very good at maintaining coverage over time. So QBs that can do those things are likely to have a very good game against the Lions... provided they and their receivers can execute.

Is this years Lions Defense any more dependent on long down and distance than any other defense? Definitely other iterations of the defensive, I felt, were overly reliant on turnovers and teams shooting themselves in the foot, but this years D seems relatively solid (outside of a couple games)

[chemiclord]

Is this years Lions Defense any more dependent on long down and distance than any other defense? Definitely other iterations of the defensive, I felt, were overly reliant on turnovers and teams shouting themselves in the foot, but this years D seems relatively solid (outside of a couple games)

I can't say I've been running through every team's tape, so I don't know how much more important it is to them than any other team. But as a general rule, if you have a weak secondary, it tends to be more important to have 3rd and 8+ rather than 3rd and 4- than it would be for a team with a stouter back seven (though yes, any defense would prefer the former to the latter).

And there's a degree where this Lions defense still rather needs opponents to shoot themselves in the foot. They were the beneficiary of an unusual number of unforced errors by Chiefs receivers in their win against KC, and in wins against Tampa and Las Vegas there were more than a handful of big plays both teams had in front of them that were simply missed throws by Mayfield and Jimmy G. The sort of throws that Hebert and Jackson didn't miss as they ran up the score.

I think we have to be careful singing this defense's praises based on how terrible past Lions defenses have been. It is certainly far better than in the past, but ya know, low bars to clear and all that. I think in reality this defense is rather middling, has feasted on poor QB play more than imposed themselves on opponents, and I am dubious it's going to be good enough to hold its own come playoff time, reinforced by how absolutely putrid it has looked against the playoff-caliber teams its faced so far.

[mason reese]

I agree that the defense is middling, but I take it as somewhat of an accomplishment rather than just clearing a low bar. They lost their 2nd leading player in sacks, and 2 of their 3 FAs in the secondary pretty much right from the jump. Their improvement from the bottom to the top of the middle was accomplished through one reasonably priced FA, two rookies, and improvement from second and third year players.

i don’t have high hopes for a deep playoff run, but I never did. They’ve had some good fortune this year that raised expectations, but I still think 2024 with a good offseason is their most likely year to make a run

[chemiclord]

I agree that the defense is middling, but I take it as somewhat of an accomplishment rather than just clearing a low bar. They lost their 2nd leading player in sacks, and 2 of their 3 FAs in the secondary pretty much right from the jump. Their improvement from the bottom to the top of the middle was accomplished through one reasonably priced FA, two rookies, and improvement from second and third year players.

i don’t have high hopes for a deep playoff run, but I never did. They’ve had some good fortune this year that raised expectations, but I still think 2024 with a good offseason is their most likely year to make a run

Yeah, I'm not on the Super Bowl contender angle either. Wasn't upset with their relative quietness at the trade deadline, and also figure they are one more solid offseason away from the window actually being open. Win the division, win a playoff game were and are my goals for a successful season.

But man, that defense being so... so bad against other playoff-quality offenses has given me pause. It's not even a matter of "hey, just a bad night." Every playoff-quality QB has just ripped this defense a new one, and made it look easy. I do think that's unacceptable, even with the injuries they've suffered. There is no excuse to be that bad against the likes of Jackson, Smith, and Hebert consistently.

[froot loops]

I was expecting watching this to see bad busted coverages and terrible pass rush. But it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. This only has like 8 or 9 plays. The one time Herbert does extend the play, the throw is absolutely amazing. I didn't appreciate it at the time. It's right before the almost goal.line stand.

There's not much you can do about personnel at this point, but to me it seems like the good quarterbacks easily read what the Lions are doing. It doesn't seem like they are good at disguising coverages.

[El Axe]

Whoa. Easy there big fella.

A little hyperbole never hurt anyone but..

He has played well, but there is a reason that Dobbs has been kicked around the league. My guess is that he returns to the norm
.

Dobbs leads the league in yards per carry for QBs and is second in total yards to Jackson, though has played one less game. He's been the most productive running QB in the league.

Cousins is a better QB in general, but Dobbs has been amazing so far. They may have caught lightning in a bottle -- with the exact kind of QB that gives our defense fits

[froot loops]

I'm not sure about that, Cousins can dice up a zone.

[chemiclord]

I was expecting watching this to see bad busted coverages and terrible pass rush. But it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. This only has like 8 or 9 plays. The one time Herbert does extend the play, the throw is absolutely amazing. I didn't appreciate it at the time. It's right before the almost goal.line stand.

There's not much you can do about personnel at this point, but to me it seems like the good quarterbacks easily read what the Lions are doing. It doesn't seem like they are good at disguising coverages.

It seems clear to me that a lot of these guys are not in good position. They aren't reading the plays and routes well. JT notes how huge the windows are, and I think you'd see something similar in every game with this defense. I think you yourself noted how many time against the Bucs that Mayfield had dudes wide open, and he just missed. I think this is more than just "communication," though its certainly part of it, and why you get cases of Jack Campbell trying to cover Keenan Allen one-on-one.

But there's also a degree that these guys... simply aren't doing their jobs very well. It's not just that they're getting beat, which would be solely a talent issue. They aren't even in the right positions to get beat, and the opinion of who is responsible for that is going to depend on how much you think coaching and scheme matter in getting people in the right spot at the right time.

[froot loops]

Joseph has been a disappointment this season.

[chemiclord]

Joseph has been a disappointment this season.

There's been a lot of players who have disappointed. Pretty much everyone not named Hutchinson and McNeil on the defensive line have been underwhelming.

[mason reese]

Dobbs leads the league in yards per carry for QBs and is second in total yards to Jackson, though has played one less game. He's been the most productive running QB in the league.

Cousins is a better QB in general, but Dobbs has been amazing so far. They may have caught lightning in a bottle -- with the exact kind of QB that gives our defense fits

Did anybody watch him in Arizona? Was the 1-7 record just an indictment of the AZ roster, or did he just suddenly figure things out after the trade?

[chemiclord]

Did anybody watch him in Arizona? Was the 1-7 record just an indictment of the AZ roster, or did he just suddenly figure things out after the trade?

He actually did quite well in Arizona. It's just not a very good team over there at all.

[CGVT]

He is not good.

Jesus.