NFL News

[jaadam4]

With Jefferson out, it makes sense to get what they can for him since they apparently have no intent on re-signing him....Maybe they'll move Hackenson too.

That would be hilarious considering his contract. That’s a really difficult contract to move unless they’re taking back money as well

[Iron Lion]

I'm super confused why they want to dump Kirk.

Every fricken year we hear about college QBs being hyped and then someone drafts a Bryce Young.

[jaadam4]

I'm super confused why they want to dump Kirk.

Every fricken year we hear about college QBs being hyped and then someone drafts a Bryce Young.

Because they missed their window. They had good teams and couldn’t capitalize. They’re in a rebuild with the WR being the best player on the team.

[froot loops]

Hockenson has a 29 million dead cap hit against a 5 million current cap hit. No chance he gets traded during the season.

When you rebuild it is best to bottom out. Trade away any assets that can get you decent draft picks. The Vikings are in the boat the Lions were in when Holmes took over, except Cousins is older than Stafford was. As painful as it was, the Stafford trade request was best for everyone. It allowed the team to do a true rebuild. Cousins is a top 10 quarterback but when you are bottoming out, you don't want your QB heroically turning 3-14 seasons into 6-11 seasons. The Process as understood in the NBA was always a dubious proposition, but in the NFL if you can clear the salary cap which takes only one season and have a lot of draft picks, the rebuild can be quick.

[whatever_gong82]

Hockenson has a 29 million dead cap hit against a 5 million current cap hit. No chance he gets traded during the season.

When you rebuild it is best to bottom out. Trade away any assets that can get you decent draft picks. The Vikings are in the boat the Lions were in when Holmes took over, except Cousins is older than Stafford was. As painful as it was, the Stafford trade request was best for everyone. It allowed the team to do a true rebuild. Cousins is a top 10 quarterback but when you are bottoming out, you don't want your QB heroically turning 3-14 seasons into 6-11 seasons. The Process as understood in the NBA was always a dubious proposition, but in the NFL if you can clear the salary cap which takes only one season and have a lot of draft picks, the rebuild can be quick.

Ironic, isn't it, that the Detroit Lions did "The Process" way better in their sport than the Philadelphia 76ers or Detroit Tigers (under Avila previously) ever did in theirs.

[Mainevent]

Hockenson has been . . . fine in Minnesota. He's catching a lot of passes (90 in 15 games) at an 8.5 clip with 5 TDs. Which is a nice player to have on your team, but I think at the amount they signed him for I'm sure they would like to see more dynamic stuff. But he and Jefferson would be a good combination for a rookie QB to work with and his contract won't be an issue when you are paying a rookie QB peanuts.

[chemiclord]

Because "The Process" simply wouldn't (and doesn't) work in the NFL in the way it does the NBA, for example.

Due to the sheer number of people on the field at any given time in football, one person's impact (even at the most important position of QB) is going to be diluted. You could get the most amazing QB prospect in the history of ever, but if you can't find at least above replacement level players at every other position, you're going to top out at maybe .500 for that guy's career.

Whereas, in the NBA, one elite guy can quite literally change the trajectory of your entire franchise. And yeah, while picking #1 isn't any guarantee, the vast, overwhelming majority of those guys were found in the top of the first round. Even Steph Curry was a Top 10 pick. Game changers like Jokic are the equivalent of hitting on Tom Brady in the 6th round. Tanking in the NBA, as much as fans hate it, makes at the very least a small amount of sense.

I certainly wouldn't call what the Lions didn't "The Process" or even actively tanking. If that had been true, we wouldn't have seen the sort of run the Lions had at the end of last season.

[froot loops]

It hasn't worked in the NBA except in theory. The Sixers have yet to reach an Eastern Conference Finals, it was a total failure.

[whatever_gong82]

Because "The Process" simply wouldn't (and doesn't) work in the NFL in the way it does the NBA, for example.

Due to the sheer number of people on the field at any given time in football, one person's impact (even at the most important position of QB) is going to be diluted. You could get the most amazing QB prospect in the history of ever, but if you can't find at least above replacement level players at every other position, you're going to top out at maybe .500 for that guy's career.

Whereas, in the NBA, one elite guy can quite literally change the trajectory of your entire franchise. And yeah, while picking #1 isn't any guarantee, the vast, overwhelming majority of those guys were found in the top of the first round. Even Steph Curry was a Top 10 pick. Game changers like Jokic are the equivalent of hitting on Tom Brady in the 6th round. Tanking in the NBA, as much as fans hate it, makes at the very least a small amount of sense.

I certainly wouldn't call what the Lions didn't "The Process" or even actively tanking. If that had been true, we wouldn't have seen the sort of run the Lions had at the end of last season.

However, and this is the most important point, you have to have a good Owner/General Manager/Coach(Manager in MLB) combination to make it work. If any of those 3 things I listed are Mediocre or worse, the whole thing falls apart.

As you're well aware, William Clay Ford Sr. was an gosh awful Owner of the Detroit Lions for 50 years, as he kept on making the same idiotic mistakes, and never learning what he was doing wrong, by hiring idiot GMs such as Russ Thomas, Chuck Schmidt, Matt Millen and Martin Mayhew, to them hiring out of their depth mediocre to trash Coaches like Wayne Fontes, Marty Mornhinweg, and Jim Schwartz.

You can be an all-timer in your sport, but if you don't have the right Owner/GM/Coach combo above you to put a team together, you might win, but more often you don't.

3 cases in point locally are Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson (Megatron), and Matt Stafford, who only won when he left this Franchise 2 seasons ago. Elsewhere, the late Wilt Chamberlain put up all the pretty stats regular season wise during his career but only won 2 NBA titles in his lifetime, almost always losing to either the great Boston Celtics teams of the early '60s or the NY Knicks team in '70.

Now locally Sheila Ford Hamp is being way better than her father ever was, learning from the mistake of keeping Bob Quinn and Matt Patricia and cutting bait after being pounded by a mediocre Houston Texans team on Thanksgiving Day 2020. She got Chris Spielman to leave the Fox Sports broadcast booth to re-join the Lions, and he and Barry Sanders (behind the scenes) got her to cast a wide net and search for a new GM and Head Coach, and that's how we got Brad Holmes as our GM and Dan Campbell as our Head Coach.

Now, the final verdict of the Holmes/Campbell marriage hasn't been set in stone yet. Heck, we still need to win our Division and win a Playoff Game just to get this team to semi-relevancy. But, I'm more trusting of the current Owner/GM/Head Coach combo with this team for the first time in my life.

[Iron Lion]

Because "The Process" simply wouldn't (and doesn't) work in the NFL in the way it does the NBA, for example.

Due to the sheer number of people on the field at any given time in football, one person's impact (even at the most important position of QB) is going to be diluted. You could get the most amazing QB prospect in the history of ever, but if you can't find at least above replacement level players at every other position, you're going to top out at maybe .500 for that guy's career.

Whereas, in the NBA, one elite guy can quite literally change the trajectory of your entire franchise. And yeah, while picking #1 isn't any guarantee, the vast, overwhelming majority of those guys were found in the top of the first round. Even Steph Curry was a Top 10 pick. Game changers like Jokic are the equivalent of hitting on Tom Brady in the 6th round. Tanking in the NBA, as much as fans hate it, makes at the very least a small amount of sense.

I certainly wouldn't call what the Lions didn't "The Process" or even actively tanking. If that had been true, we wouldn't have seen the sort of run the Lions had at the end of last season.

I thought the NBA had a draft lottery to discourage tanking.

[Iron Lion]

Hockenson has a 29 million dead cap hit against a 5 million current cap hit. No chance he gets traded during the season.

When you rebuild it is best to bottom out. Trade away any assets that can get you decent draft picks. The Vikings are in the boat the Lions were in when Holmes took over, except Cousins is older than Stafford was. As painful as it was, the Stafford trade request was best for everyone. It allowed the team to do a true rebuild. Cousins is a top 10 quarterback but when you are bottoming out, you don't want your QB heroically turning 3-14 seasons into 6-11 seasons. The Process as understood in the NBA was always a dubious proposition, but in the NFL if you can clear the salary cap which takes only one season and have a lot of draft picks, the rebuild can be quick.

Because they missed their window. They had good teams and couldn’t capitalize. They’re in a rebuild with the WR being the best player on the team.

How is Minnesota remotely close to bottoming out? They're by far the best 1-4 team I've ever seen. They are the clear #2 threat in our division. Fortunately for us they still have a lot of their first place schedule yet to play, such as SF and the December Bengals. But if they hadn't fumbled the season away to this point they could easily be 5-0. They are -9 in turnovers. If that was just ±0 then they clearly have a winning record right now. If it is something like +3 or better they're 5-0.

Even if we assume they lose to SF and CIN, then that takes them to 6 losses. Outside of playing us, the rest of their schedule is very winnable. They could go 7-1 in those games and nobody would find that weird. This would put them at 8-7 outside of playing us. So they are still alive but they scare me more than J Lo and Justin Can't-Read-the-Field.

My hope is that they dump Cousins. Cousins was asked if he would waive his no-trade clause and he absolutely did not say no. He gave the typical on-script answer. So outside of SF, if they lose one of these two winnable games before Halloween I'm betting he is traded.

[Iron Lion]

However, and this is the most important point, you have to have a good Owner/General Manager/Coach(Manager in MLB) combination to make it work. If any of those 3 things I listed are Mediocre or worse, the whole thing falls apart.

As you're well aware, William Clay Ford Sr. was an gosh awful Owner of the Detroit Lions for 50 years, as he kept on making the same idiotic mistakes, and never learning what he was doing wrong, by hiring idiot GMs such as Russ Thomas, Chuck Schmidt, Matt Millen and Martin Mayhew, to them hiring out of their depth mediocre to trash Coaches like Wayne Fontes, Marty Mornhinweg, and Jim Schwartz.

You can be an all-timer in your sport, but if you don't have the right Owner/GM/Coach combo above you to put a team together, you might win, but more often you don't.

3 cases in point locally are Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson (Megatron), and Matt Stafford, who only won when he left this Franchise 2 seasons ago. Elsewhere, the late Wilt Chamberlain put up all the pretty stats regular season wise during his career but only won 2 NBA titles in his lifetime, almost always losing to either the great Boston Celtics teams of the early '60s or the NY Knicks team in '70.

Now locally Sheila Ford Hamp is being way better than her father ever was, learning from the mistake of keeping Bob Quinn and Matt Patricia and cutting bait after being pounded by a mediocre Houston Texans team on Thanksgiving Day 2020. She got Chris Spielman to leave the Fox Sports broadcast booth to re-join the Lions, and he and Barry Sanders (behind the scenes) got her to cast a wide net and search for a new GM and Head Coach, and that's how we got Brad Holmes as our GM and Dan Campbell as our Head Coach.

Now, the final verdict of the Holmes/Campbell marriage hasn't been set in stone yet. Heck, we still need to win our Division and win a Playoff Game just to get this team to semi-relevancy. But, I'm more trusting of the current Owner/GM/Head Coach combo with this team for the first time in my life.

Well said. I remember posting a poll here during I believe the depths of the Fatty Matty Patty era and the consensus was that not even Brady would've done more than a couple wildcard wins with the Lions, if that.

[chemiclord]

It hasn't worked in the NBA except in theory. The Sixers have yet to reach an Eastern Conference Finals, it was a total failure.

Tim Duncan and LeBron James would like to have a word. Patrick Ewing might not have won a championship, but despite the "Ewing Theory" nonsense, the Knicks were almost as bad as they were recently until Ewing turned their fortunes around almost single-handedly. And that's not including players who didn't go #1 overall. Tanking has absolutely worked in the NBA.

[whatever_gong82]

Lions start strong, with more help from Jameson Williams and others still to come



By Colton Pouncy
Oct 13, 2023


The NFL trade deadline is Oct. 31, and the Detroit Lions are positioned to be buyers for the first time in a long time, thanks to their 4-1 start.

They have the look of a complete team with a roster capable of competing in the NFC. A deadline move or two could provide some additional juice, of course, but the Lions also have internal reinforcements on the way.

Let’s take a look at some pieces who could become contributors sooner rather than later.


WR Jameson Williams


An obvious one, but a player worth mentioning regardless. Williams’ career to date has been a tale of patience. Patience through injury, patience through suspension, patience through growing pains. But Williams is finally healthy and ready to go. The Lions are working to get him involved.

“He’s gonna continue to get better every single week,” offensive coordinator Ben Johnson said Thursday. “That’s been the biggest issue with Jamo, is the fact that we haven’t been able to stack good days on top of each other since he’s been here. He had a great week of practice last week. I’m looking forward to him doing that again this week because that’s the way you get better. That’s the way you gain trust of the play caller, the quarterback, quarterback will play faster, have more anticipation of where he’s gonna be and we’ll be able to continue to give him opportunities to catch the ball and be the playmaker that he’s capable of being.”


Williams made his season debut Sunday in the Lions’ 42-24 win over the Carolina Panthers. It was a quiet one on the box score — two receptions, 2 yards and a drop — but the Lions were just pleased to see him out there, knowing he’ll need time to ramp up. But there were other times when Williams’ speed caught the attention of safeties deep downfield, and others when Williams’ blocking impacted the game in a positive way. Those are examples of what he can do for the offense, even when the ball isn’t coming his way with regularity.

“The coolest thing that came from the game the other day is, the guy is such a big competitor,” Johnson said. “You see him block in the run game like he is. If he blocks like that, there’ll be snaps for him every week.”



DL Brodric Martin

When the Lions traded back into the third round for Martin, they did so knowing he’d need time to acclimate to this level of football. He was raw coming out of Western Kentucky, but GM Brad Holmes loved his size, length and potential. But everyone develops at their own pace. Martin certainly has.

While there were times in training camp when Martin flashed against Frank Ragnow and Detroit’s interior offensive line, he also looked like a player in need of more seasoning. His pad level was high at times, his hand placement could’ve been better, he needed to continue working on his lateral agility and ultimately understand the why of Detroit’s defense and his role in it.

The good news, though, is that he appears to be on his way.


“I can’t say exactly when he’s going to play, but I’ll tell you what, I like where he’s at and I like how he’s improving,” Glenn said Thursday. “And that’s what we talk about with that player all the time, as far as his awareness, as far as how we play defense for the most part. … He’s still a big body that can move, so each week him getting the chance to go against our O-line is the best thing he can ever have.”

That last part is particularly true. Having an offensive line like the Lions do is instrumental in the development of young defensive linemen. Think back to James Houston last year. As he navigated life in the NFL early on, he received hands-on training from an offensive line that features three players with Pro Bowls under their belts. It was those offensive linemen who went to the coaching staff to inform them Houston was ready. Seems like Martin is getting the same education. We’ll see when he’s ready.

CB Steven Gilmore

The Lions have a history of hitting on some undrafted free agents. Look no further than Jerry Jacobs, a 2021 UDFA who’s worked himself into a starting role and is tied for the league lead in interceptions with three. Did the Lions find another hidden gem this offseason in Gilmore?


Brother of Dallas Cowboys All-Pro cornerback Stephon Gilmore, little bro has been paying his dues with the Lions. He was signed out of Marshall, brought in for a look and impressed this summer. Among corners in the preseason, Gilmore’s PFF coverage grade of 91.5 ranked second in the league. He led all corners in pass breakups (4), interceptions (2) and had a passer rating of 38.1 when targeted. That effort helped him earn a spot on the 53-man roster.

Though Gilmore has played just two games and has yet to see a defensive snap, coaches say his development is right on track.


“He’s a part of the plan that we have,” Glenn said. “We call him Gilly-Lock because he has lock-down potential, so he has some of that from his brother. But he’s a good one to have, we’re excited about the player and at some point, he’ll be on the field helping us.”

You know you’re in good standing when you have a nickname from Campbell or Glenn. As the Lions search for cornerback depth with the loss of Emmanuel Moseley, perhaps their answer is already in the building.


Josh Paschal

One player the Lions are high on that we just haven’t seen much of is Paschal, a 2022 second-round pick out of Kentucky. This was Paschal’s first full offseason after injuries slowed him as a rookie, and he turned in an excellent training camp. Paschal’s best trait is his versatility — something he flashed this summer. He was setting the edge in the run game, blowing up plays after kicking inside to three-technique and looking like a player ready to ascend.

“That’s one player that I’m very excited for,” Glenn said this summer. “He really didn’t get a chance to go through an offseason program last year and he’s been able to do that, so I think we’re starting to see the fruits of that show up. He’s a powerful, physical man and again, that’s why we drafted him in the second round. We expected those things from him, and he’s going to be a good player.”

Unfortunately for Paschal, after a solid season opener versus the Kansas City Chiefs, he suffered a knee injury that landed him on IR. He’s missed the last four games, but he’s been spotted at practice working with trainers off to the side. He’s eligible to return, but the Lions haven’t started his clock yet. Whenever they do, and whenever he’s ready, getting Paschal back could work the same as a trade acquisition, given his inside-out ability and upside.


Others who could factor in down the road

The Lions have a few long-term injuries to players who could make their way back into action late in the season. Campbell hasn’t ruled out potential returns for Houston (fractured ankle) or safety C.J. Gardner-Johnson (torn pectoral), who are both on IR. Gardner-Johnson is a ballhawk and an Energizer Bunny on the field. The Lions have received strong production from Tracy Walker in his absence, but he’s a piece they’d welcome back with open arms when healthy. Houston, meanwhile, has a win rate of 23.1 percent in two games — which would rank sixth in the NFL if he qualified. He could help take an already-producing pass rush to the next level.

On the quieter side, tight end James Mitchell and defensive lineman Levi Onwuzurike have yet to get going. Mitchell’s dealing with a hamstring injury, while Onwuzurike was a healthy scratch last week. It’s possible both will need time to carve out a role with the team, and those opportunities could present themselves later.


And finally, Detroit’s first-round picks Jahmyr Gibbs and Jack Campbell are already contributing to wins, but we haven’t seen the best of them yet. Gibbs’ touches have been limited, and a hamstring injury has slowed him of late, but he’s averaging 62.3 scrimmage yards per game. We’re still waiting for the home run, which he’s plenty capable of hitting. But some patience might be in order. The same can be said of Campbell. The Lions have been doing what they can to get him on the field, even adding some pass-rushing snaps to his plate in addition to linebacker.

As they continue to learn on the job, expect their touches and opportunities to increase.


Colton Pouncy is a staff writer for The Athletic covering the Detroit Lions. He previously covered Michigan State football and basketball for the company, and covered sports for The Tennessean in Nashville prior to joining The Athletic. Follow Colton on Twitter @colton_pouncy

[whatever_gong82]