US Politics - 2020 Presidential Election - GOP v Dem cage fight (ENTER AT YOUR PERIL)

[chemiclord]

See, even there he's not honest.

He'd let Russia do whatever the hell they want whether other NATO countries paid up or not. He was looking for any way he could to pull out of the alliance without consequences his entire initial term. Why would he honor his commitments now?

[Mainevent]

100% he didn’t actually say that of course. But the fact that he thinks that is something to say to his constituents as a rallying cry is incredible. Trump is the real life equivalent of Homelander disintegrating a protester with his heat vision and his minions responding with cheers.

[CGVT]

How anyone can support that jackass is beyond me.

[CGVT]

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[dpatnod]

How anyone can support that jackass is beyond me.

It's probably because Donald Von Shitshispants is such a "strong" leader, and so admirable. You know, once he has his makeup all done up, and his hair-hat adjusted. And aside from the constant crying how everything is so unfair to him. He's a super tough guy.

Or maybe it's the racism.

[Whitley]

How anyone can support that jackass is beyond me.

Trump is very good master manipulator AND very good at reading his crowds

[froot loops]

At least the deep state did it's job tonight.

[Sanders Fan]

NATO should pay its bills but that doesn’t mean that Trump (or Biden) should be president. I’m waiting for the day when we get somebody under 45 that has a shot.

[froot loops]

There's no bills to pay. It's not like there is membership dues. We spent 40 years containing the Soviets and this dingaling wants to reanimate the Russian empire.

[chemiclord]

Trump is very good master manipulator AND very good at reading his crowds

In the sense that he tells his voters what they want to hear, and that nothing that comes out of his mouth will ever be too vile or deplorable for them.

[chemiclord]

There's no bills to pay. It's not like there is membership dues. We spent 40 years containing the Soviets and this dingaling wants to reanimate the Russian empire.

This.

The NATO alliance sets benchmarks that the various countries are "recommended" they meet. But when one country in said alliance is happily and eagerly spending more on their military than the next four or five nations combined (though China recently might have finally changed that)... it's a reasonable question for those other nations to ask, "Do you really need us doing research and development for... what... exactly?"

It was and is fine (at least in a general sense) to say, "Hey, we want you to start pulling your own weight and start building more of your own defense infrastructure." But the USA doesn't send them a fucking bill every month for protection. That's never been and never will be how NATO works.

[Sanders Fan]

There’s no IOUs (there never have been for US aid going back to the Marshall plan when billions were poured into European recovery after the war) but for decades Europe did not meet its expectations in NATO spending. Eisenhower complained about it all the way through Obama complaining about it. I believe only since he was president has the gap shifted slightly and has accelerated since the Ukraine war started.

[dpatnod]

The only time article 5 of the UN agreement has been enacted was...... for other countries to fight for the USA after 9/11.

And most of the defense spending of these countries is on.... equipment from US defense contractors.

The alliance means that defending the interests of the USA is cheaper than if we had to do it entirely on our own, with intelligence gathering, having bases all over the world, etc. for us to use to influence our position in the world.

You have to think long term, not like it is a weekly rent payment.

[froot loops]

The US may have complained from time to time about Europe not spending enough on their military but the US was content to be the big dog. The US loves to spend on defense! Speaking like it's OK for Putin to reanimate the Russian empire is total fucking madness.

[Blue Lagoon58]

The only time article 5 of the UN agreement has been enacted was...... for other countries to fight for the USA after 9/11.

And most of the defense spending of these countries is on.... equipment from US defense contractors.

The alliance means that defending the interests of the USA is cheaper than if we had to do it entirely on our own, with intelligence gathering, having bases all over the world, etc. for us to use to influence our position in the world.

You have to think long term, not like it is a weekly rent payment.

Thinking anything past 5min isn't their strong suit, believe it or not.