US Politics - 2020 Presidential Election - GOP v Dem cage fight (ENTER AT YOUR PERIL)

[froot loops]

The 2000 Trumpers were egged on by Trump and other elected officials. And it was part of a larger scheme to overturn the elections. That scheme included fake electors pushed by elected officials. It was more than just Trumpers told to fight like hell.

You fellas just want a free pass so you can try it another time and maybe it works then.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

First….remember: nihilist not a trumper.

But…as a liberal, I understand that the first thing you do is gaslight and try to dehumanize anyone with an opinion dissenting (or in this case inconvenient) to their own.

and you acting like the GOP folks are the ones who are looking for a free pass to riot….come on man, really? You look back at the events of the last 50 or so years, and your position is that conservative working folks are the ones looking for excuses to riot. You can’t actually believe that.

but what I find interesting here….is that none of you are arguing about the actual facts. Only about the ends justifying the means (in the case of CHOP anyway).

And let’s be honest….the only reason the Jan 6 hearings happened is to tie the word “insurrection” to trump in an attempt to exempt him from the next election. As the language in one of the later amendments (12th? 17th?) would bar Trump from standing if he had participated in an “insurrection”. SEE: political prosecution

[Mainevent]

It's definitely 100% prosecution. For, you know, crimes that were committed.

There literally was no mass public distrust in US voting system until Trump and his acolytes manufactured it out of thin air with a constant stream of bullshit. Period. Stop. End of discussion. And the MAGA movement learned their lesson, they are now moving to put their loyal people in places of power who control elections and voting so that the next time they want to overthrow an election they have people willing to do so. This is not some existential liberal freak out, this is a real thing and it has real consequences. These people claim fraud when then lose a primary to another GOPer. They claim there was fraud when they win, but they overcame it or outvoted the fraud. And the crazier they get, and they more they bow at the feet of Trump, the bigger stars they become and it brings even more loonies out of the woodwork.

[Marko69]

Every time i read nihilist…….. its down tools……. And ———>>>

[Futureshock]

Regardless of race, creed, color or national affiliation, if you invade and attack the Supreme Court, White House or Congress, it is an act of insurrection and those doing so are traitors. Traitors and those leading them are supposed to be shot by firing squad. My fore fathers have fought in every US war, but the Saudi War, and none would agree that attacking one of our major branches (headquarters) is the same as a neighborhood in Seattle. They are traitors and are not in league with America. They are in league with Trump. There is a difference.

For 4 years we had to deal with and do as that orange jack rabbit wished (within the law). Did we like it? HALES NO. BUT, HE WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. Thus as Americans, we didn't storm the White House, or Congress or the Supreme Court.

[Futureshock]

No one even threw shoes

[chemiclord]

And this idea that the people who stirred up the support for the "CHOP Zone" in Seattle weren't or aren't being prosecuted is nonsense, and just searching for news on it for about two minutes would tell you that.

But ya know, that would fly contrary to the reactionary alternate reality they constructed... so I doubt they even bothered to look, and even if they did they outright rejected it as "fake news."

On top of that, the idea that the government only shows restraint towards "the left" is absurd. Who remembers the "Freemen" who took over a national wildlife refuge and were largely allowed to just walk away after they got bored?

[Da Geezer]

I am not a fan of Biden though I am liking Dark Brandon more so. Shame it took him 1.5 years to figure out Republicans are dead set against anything a Dem will propose.

Yes, getting out of Afghanistan was a very good thing for this country. We should have left after killing Bin Laden (thank you President Obama). We stayed there 17 years too long too many lives were lost and trillions of dollars were spent that made the Defense contractors very happy. It is beyond the pale that we sent people back for 4,5 and 6 rotations into there.

Oil and Gas companies are posting record profits almost every quarter. They are not crippled.

I have no idea what you are talking about paying 15/hr for not working unless you are referring to the plus up in unemployment when the pandemic hit? If so, that was started by your guy Donald Trump and was one of the few good things he did as president.

up to 20k in debt forgiveness is a good thing. Why? Because college loans are a straight up scam. Any other loan you can discharge in bankruptcy student loans it is almost impossible. Any other loan you get you have a fixed interest rate that is calculated into the monthly payment. A student loan interest is set by Congress every year (before the pandemic it was as high as 6.8%). If you do not pay off the loan within the year the interest on it is then taken and put into the principle. The result is that you can pay your student loans for decades and just be treading water or your balance actually goes up. There is no incentive to pay them off early either. Why? Because the IRS will treat as found income and tax you on it.

No one batted an eye, when all those PPP loans were forgiven. No one cared when defrauded students at for profit universities got there loans forgiven.

No one cared when Congress dumped trillions to Wall Street at the beginning of the pandemic after the stock market lost 3k in ONE DAY. Yet, when student loans are forgiven on a massive level all of a sudden there is all this pearl clutching.

The entire student loan and college financing needs to burned down to the ground and built back up again. There is no reason that college should be so expensive that it is the privilege of only the elite.

Thank you for trying, at least, to name some accomplishments of the Biden Administration.

1. Afghanistan: No one I know has ever taken the position that we should have stayed in Afghanistan. Trump was working toward an organized retreat with US control of Bagram AFB. What the Biden administration did was cut and turn tail and leave $ 83 Billion in modern equipment behind, to say nothing of the thousands of humans who were abandoned.

2. O+G companies: have been denied the right to build REFINERIES and PIPELINES. This was done specifically to choke off the use of fossil fuels, which is a major thrust of the Green New Deal. Biden did get 300-500 Billion for the GND and it will be spent to promote electric car ownership (which is overwhelmingly dominated by D donors). Let's keep in mind that CA and other states that have passed laws to follow CA, have to have 25% electric vehicles by 2026. Whitley, do you have an electric auto yet? The GND enriches China and gives to them control over our transportation sector because the appeal of electric cars is that they are somehow run on "free" green energy.The college would

As to the profits, they have a cost of probably $ 20/bl in the oil they are using from their already-discovered oil in the ground. When you sell that for $85/bl you make a large profit. Normally (for the last 100 years or so) those profits are "plowed back" into the discovery of new sources and the development of those sources. All of the leasing, discovery, drilling and processing of this new oil is a write-off to the oil companies, which, under normal conditions would lower their net profit.

One also must note that Biden has sold off our strategic oil reserve to 1984 levels in order to have enough oil on the market to lower the price at the pump from $ 5.00/gal to $ 3.75/gal. This reserve was for national emergencies. Apparently losing the 2022 midterms is now considered a major national emergency.

3. $ 15.00 per week for not working: That was the $ 600.00 per week that people were paid when the economy closed down. As a teacher, I understand that you do not translate pay into a 40-hour week, but most people consider a 40-hour week to be standard. I will say that if you wanted to establish a $ 15/hr minimum wage, paying people that amount to not work seems to be the best tactic.

4. Student loan scam: Has indeed become a scam. You won't remember how this problem came about, but Obama, as "funding" for the ACA, took over the student loan business from banks. The banks were making a profit, and Obama saw this as a ready source of funding. Naturally, government bureaucrats were unable to assess risk, and they made loans to almost every applicant. Turns out that many of the applicants got degrees in the Victimology areas like Black Studies, Gender Studies, Education, Public Administration, Sociology, or Psychology. Those areas do not produce enough income to pay off the loans. Colleges did indeed take advantage by raising their costs to absurd levels.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________

PROPOSAL: Let me make a suggestion on how to "burn down" the current system: This might be a good discussion subject.

Colleges should be forced to co-sign any loan that is used to pay money to the college. This would have many salutary benefits. The college would have skin in the game and could be expected to advise incoming freshmen to go into a field where there are jobs that would allow repayment. If the college had to repay a loan, the amount could be deducted from the DoE money coming in the current year. Ultimately, any college has the right to cancel a degree for just cause. In our present "credentialed" world, that is a big stick. Colleges could also publish the names of the deadbeats in alumni magazines. The point is that the colleges have actual tools to collect the debt.

No one suggests that current borrowers are being misled in any way. If you want to have student loans discharged in bankruptcy, then you should understand the consequences. In ancient times when I was at UM Law, you could declare bankruptcy to discharge student loan debt. Seniors actually passed around templates for declaring bankruptcy to avoid paying for their contracted amount of debt. as too risky. What happened was that banks came to the point where they viewed any loan to a student at MichLaw.

[Da Geezer]

California's population dropped 20k over the last two or three years.

THAT is the heart of the "California Exodus."

Six million people left the state in the last 5 years. There has been a huge influx of illegal aliens that counterbalance the outflow. It would be informative to know how many of the illegals actually pay taxes. In a recent survey 1/3 of the population of SF said they were considering leaving the state.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

Regardless of race, creed, color or national affiliation, if you invade and attack the Supreme Court, White House or Congress, it is an act of insurrection and those doing so are traitors. Traitors and those leading them are supposed to be shot by firing squad. My fore fathers have fought in every US war, but the Saudi War, and none would agree that attacking one of our major branches (headquarters) is the same as a neighborhood in Seattle. They are traitors and are not in league with America. They are in league with Trump. There is a difference.

For 4 years we had to deal with and do as that orange jack rabbit wished (within the law). Did we like it? HALES NO. BUT, HE WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. Thus as Americans, we didn't storm the White House, or Congress or the Supreme Court.

But if you invade seattle you’re a patriot? Again….your basing what the response should be based on your own moral high ground. And you can’t punish people based on bigotry and politics…which is what happened.

I don’t believe either one of these incidents was “insurrection” or an “invasion”…..but I also think that everyone should have been punished in both places. We shouldn’t only be punishing people with certain political viewpoints. This makes Jan 6 a political prosecution….100%. You can’t look at these two situations with their radically different outcomes and think otherwise unless you’re so bigoted that fundamental fairness means nothing to you anymore.

[CGVT]

It's definitely 100% prosecution. For, you know, crimes that were committed.

There literally was no mass public distrust in US voting system until Trump and his acolytes manufactured it out of thin air with a constant stream of bullshit. Period. Stop. End of discussion. And the MAGA movement learned their lesson, they are now moving to put their loyal people in places of power who control elections and voting so that the next time they want to overthrow an election they have people willing to do so. This is not some existential liberal freak out, this is a real thing and it has real consequences. These people claim fraud when then lose a primary to another GOPer. They claim there was fraud when they win, but they overcame it or outvoted the fraud. And the crazier they get, and they more they bow at the feet of Trump, the bigger stars they become and it brings even more loonies out of the woodwork.

This is the fucking truth.

There only hypocrisy is by those that try to equate a protest in Seattle to a blatant attempt to overturn the election of the President of the United States that was orchestrated by the loser of the election. There is no comparison.

[Da Geezer]

It's definitely 100% prosecution. For, you know, crimes that were committed.

There literally was no mass public distrust in US voting system until Trump and his acolytes manufactured it out of thin air with a constant stream of bullshit. Period.

Seems to me that the Dems launched an independent council to "investigate" Russian collusion in the 2016 Trump election. The last poll I read had 75% of Dems still believing 2016 was illegitimate. Jimmy Carter, in an interview this year said Bush was illegitimate.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

When you guys just blindly say…”there’s no comparison”.

you realize this is gaslighting…simply ignoring any facts that are inconvenient to your argument…doesn’t constitute and actual argument of your own.

The parallels between CHOP and Jan 6th are too numerous to ignore (unless you’re blinded by your own political bigotry)….but to admit this would be admitting that the differences between the prosecutions of the relative events are completely based on politics.

Sorry guys….this is a pretty common sense link. The only reason not to see it is bigotry and hypocrisy.

[froot loops]

First….remember: nihilist not a trumper.

But…as a liberal, I understand that the first thing you do is gaslight and try to dehumanize anyone with an opinion dissenting (or in this case inconvenient) to their own.

and you acting like the GOP folks are the ones who are looking for a free pass to riot….come on man, really? You look back at the events of the last 50 or so years, and your position is that conservative working folks are the ones looking for excuses to riot. You can’t actually believe that.

but what I find interesting here….is that none of you are arguing about the actual facts. Only about the ends justifying the means (in the case of CHOP anyway).

And let’s be honest….the only reason the Jan 6 hearings happened is to tie the word “insurrection” to trump in an attempt to exempt him from the next election. As the language in one of the later amendments (12th? 17th?) would bar Trump from standing if he had participated in an “insurrection”. SEE: political prosecution

1. I've never even heard of CHOP, much less defend it.

2. I am not a believer in ends justifies the means, peaceful protest is the way to go. Violence and riots and looting don't help the cause. Read up on the Civil Rights movement, they tried to be as careful as possible to be peaceful. People who resort to violence need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

3. Yes they want a free pass, why are so many election deniers on the ballot? He in Michigan the GOP sent fake electors, if you don't think that should be investigated by Congress, nothing should be investigated. Also in Michigan the canvasser (Aaron Van Langevelde) who voted to certify the election was removed by the GOP. Canvas boards across the state have had election deniers installed at the county level.

4. When people who are election deniers are increasingly put in places of power and you want to ignore the danger, that's the gaslighting.

5. When you assemble a crowd to march on the Capitol to "fight like hell" and then they fight like hell that should be investigated. Doubly so, when as President you don't do a thing for 3 hours to quell the violence. Mike Pence called in National Guard when he had no right to do so, but he did it because Trump wanted the violence and also wanted the certification delayed and did nothing. When the President does that and it is investigated, that isn't political persecution, it's common sense.

6. Nobody should ever argue the ends justifies the means with riots, especially any resident of Detroit. The 67 riots did great damage to the city and they still reverberate to this day.

[froot loops]

Plus, the nihilist not a Trumper schtick is truly virtue signaling. You are a Trumper through and through, maybe you just don't realize it.