US Politics - 2020 Presidential Election - GOP v Dem cage fight (ENTER AT YOUR PERIL)

[chemiclord]

Yeah, we've been over this once already. The Calfornia Exodus is a myth. It's bullshit, it's been proven to be bullshit, and yet you push your lies anyway.

Go back to bed, old man.

[froot loops]

Nobody goes there, it's too crowded.

[klondike]

How about you progs here listing the accomplishments of the Biden administration? What have they done to benefit the country other than massively spend on Green Energy and welfare?

Stop with the narrative. That is always Trump all the time. With Biden it's just shove a pen in his old shaky hand and keep those college graduate checks coming(2000 taxes for everyone thank you) and insulin for everyone ( which is fine but involves less then 10% of the population) the rest have to keep playing 500 a month more for inflation than when the bad orange man was in charge. The media loves to build on those points that effects minimal of the total population. And if you're against all the other needless spending like the green deal they'll say we're jerks for being against insulin takers. No. We're against the other billions of the bill that won't even start to take effect until 2028-30.

[Futureshock]

We keep talking about Jan 6 because it's so rare to see a conservative riot that the country wants to milk it for everything it's worth. That inserection was lame. Really. No one was killed cept a rioter. No fires or guns were ever drawn. They call it a coo. A bunch of geriatric and wackjobs roaming the Capital with nothing to do but take pictures. So scary and laughable when the Vice Pres compares it to 9-11 and the Civil War.

The left burned down police offices and federal buildings. People died and businesses gone, whole blocks of cities taken over, yet they are forgotten. I'll give them that, the left know how to have a propper riot and inscrection. The Right needs work and theirs are really lame. Once again. The media can create and destroy a good story and Jan. 6 is their honeypot. Especially, in Uncle Joe's down spell after the Afghanistan fiasco, it distracted everyone for the whole summer into mid terms. Nice going. A++ you guys. You definitely want it more than the Republicans. I wish the Lions had half of your resolve.

Another case of lies you and your buddies tell each other until you actually believe them.

Meanwhile...
BLM protest vs. Capitol riot: Comparing police response

On Jan. 6, several hundred supporters of President Trump charged inside the Capitol to overturn an election the president had repeatedly and falsely claimed was stolen. They were mostly White, and they roamed freely through the halls, taking selfies and stealing souvenirs, smashing doors and defacing statues, amid sporadic calls to “Hang Mike Pence!” Many shoved and beat officers, one of whom later died."

the Lie:

No one was killed cept a rioter.

On June 1, 2020, a crowd of similar size gathered outside the White House to protest after the police killing of George Floyd. They were a diverse group who called for an end to police brutality and racial inequity, and an army of federal agents, assembled after Trump demanded a show of domination, sent them running with chemical agents and rubber bullets.

These two demonstrations, at the most prominent symbols of democracy in the nation’s capital, will define Trump’s legacy, highlighting the divisions he has stoked and the disparate treatment of Black and White people in America by law enforcement.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/22/who-caused-violence-protests-its-not-antifa/

Who caused the violence at protests? It wasn’t antifa.

“The memory of George Floyd is being dishonored by rioters, looters and anarchists. The violence and vandalism is being led by antifa and other radical left-wing groups who are terrorizing the innocent, destroying jobs, hurting businesses and burning down buildings.”

— President Trump, in remarks at a SpaceX launch, May 30

“I don't see any indication that there were any white supremest groups mixing in. This is an ANTIFA Organization. It seems that the first time we saw it in a major way was Occupy Wall Street. It's the same mindset.” @kilmeade @foxandfriends TRUE!”

— Trump, in a tweet, June 1

“Our nation has been gripped by professional anarchists. Violent mobs, arsonists, looters, criminals, rioters, antifa and others.”

— Trump, in remarks at the White House Rose Garden, June 1

“We have antifa, we have anarchists, we have terrorists, we have looters. We have a lot of bad people in those groups. I mean, you watch and you see.”

— Trump, in an interview, June 3

On May 30 — five days after George Floyd was killed and four after protests erupted across Minneapolis — President Trump first said antifa forces were behind the violence that swept across the country. He has repeated this claim nearly 20 times since. Online activists and prominent right-wing Twitter personalities promoted the theory. And the nation’s top law enforcement officials — including FBI Director Christopher A. Wray and Attorney General William P. Barr — appeared to confirm it, echoing Trump’s claim.

The Fact Checker video team spoke to witnesses and reviewed arrest records, federal charges, intelligence reports, online conversations and dozens of videos and photos of violent incidents from the early days of protests in Minneapolis to determine whether a coordinated antifa campaign was responsible for the violence.


Let’s review. The Facts

Antifa is a moniker, not a single group with a clear organizational structure or leader. It is a decentralized network of activists who don’t coordinate. Their common ground is opposing anything that they think is racist or fascist. In recent years, antifa activists appeared whenever there was a large gathering of white nationalists.

And white nationalists, as counterintuitive as it might seem, have been known to attend Black Lives Matter rallies. That is what could then draw attention from antifa forces, according to Seth G. Jones, director of the transnational threats project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Oren Segal, vice president of the Center on Extremism at ADL, emphasized, “It’s a challenge [to identify antifa] because this is not an organized group. You’re essentially looking to try to identify what does somebody believe in.” Antifa has been identified by patches, flags, graffiti and black clothing, Segal explained. And at times, they can be identifiable by moving in “black bloc” formation. But, Segal hedged, looking to identify antifa by these visual cues is “not foolproof.”

Jones reviewed protests in more than 140 cities and spoke with U.S. officials within the joint terrorism task force. Most of the violence, Jones said, was committed by “local hooligans, sometimes gangs, sometimes just individuals that are trying to take advantage of an opportunity.”

“There were reports of some antifa at different protests,” he concluded. “But they stood back, did not engage, certainly not in a violent way.”

Officials have arrested more than 14,000 people across 49 cities nationwide since May 27, according to a Washington Post tally of data provided by police departments and included in media reports. Thousands were arrested for low-level offenses, including curfew violations and failure to disperse.

Roughly 80 federal charges, including murder and throwing molotov cocktails at police vehicles, reveal no evidence of an antifa plot. Four people who identify with the far-right extremist “boogaloo” movement are among those facing the most serious federal charges. Asked whether anyone who identifies as antifa had been charged, Department of Justice spokesman Matt Lloyd said via email, “We do not collect statistics based on potential inspiration but on unlawful acts according to statute.”

An intelligence bulletin issued by the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security and the National Counterterrorism Center that was obtained by ABC News warned that “anarchist extremists continue to pose the most significant threat of targeted assaults against police.” The bulletin, which was distributed to police departments nationwide, mentions antifa only in a footnote differentiating those who self-identify with the group from anarchists.

Rather, the bulletin said that “the greatest threat of lethal violence continues to emanate from lone offenders with racially or ethnically motivated violent extremist ideologies and [domestic violent extremists] with personalized ideologies,” specifically pointing to boogaloo-related groups as likely to be “instigating violence” at the protests.

The DHS said in a June 1 internal intelligence report seen by Reuters that “most of the violence appears to have been driven by opportunists.” A separate DHS document dated June 17 reviewed by Washington Post columnist Greg Sargent stated “anarchist and anti-government extremists pose the most significant threat of targeted low-level, protest-related assaults against law enforcement.” The document did not mention antifa by name and the document’s definition of “anarchist extremist” appears to exclude the group.

The Nation revealed a separate FBI document that said the bureau found “no intel indicating antifa involvement” in the May 31 protests in Washington. (A woman was arrested after the Portland violence and the probable cause document quoted roommates as saying she said she was part of antifa. But the charges were dismissed and the case is closed.)

Even though tangible evidence of antifa’s involvement is scant, as protests multiplied, rumors regarding the movement’s alleged role spread across social media. “What we have seen at ADL is that there has been misinformation that has suggested that antifa has been in places where there has not been any proof that they’ve been,” Segal said. This effort, he said, was “more coordinated it seems than antifa has been at actually being on the ground.”

A Twitter account that claimed to be run by antifa activists and called for violence at the protests was later linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa. A viral May 27 tweet, from a popular QAnon account, alleged that the protests were an effort by the “deep state” to “start a race war before the election,” arguing “antifa & BLM are domestic terrorist organizations that need to be STOPPED.” Conservative media outlets and prominent Twitter influencers, including Donald Trump Jr., amplified the theory that antifa was connected to the violence.

Until now, I have never understood what or who "Antifa" is supposed to be. An ideal of people who believe in equality? That's radical? No organization like the well known domestic terrorists KKK. But people who have a like thought?

[kreton]

Nobody goes there, it's too crowded.

How are they maintaining a population if no one goes there and people are fleeing?

[klondike]

My memory may be a little foggy but what group was it that occupied by force and threats with high powered automatic weapons the blocks in Seattle. That also included state government buildings and held the place hostage for about a month. That's as close to a real inserection even though it was ignored and even encouraged by their mayor.

[kreton]

My memory may be a little foggy but what group was it that occupied by force and threats with high powered automatic weapons the blocks in Seattle. That also included state government buildings and held the place hostage for about a month. That's as close to a real inserection even though it was ignored and even encouraged by their mayor.

Protesting for equality to protect American lives

Trying to overthrow an election because a terrorist didn't win an election

See if you can find the differences between those 2 statements. It is tricky.

[Iron Lion]

You should read Arguing with Idiots So you actually believe that the 900 unarmed rioters tried to overthrow the government? They would have executed Pence? That citizens (now found not guilty) tried to kidnap Whitmer? If you believe that nonsense, then there is no hope for you.

What were they doing in the rotunda? Why were they in the Capitol at all?

but you did say "Photo ID being required is absolutely not constitutional because the constitution was written a century before the first photograph was taken and there has been no amendment related to photography." By that logic, all laws relating to automobiles are unconstitutional.

Voting is a foundational right and there should not be obstacles in front of it. Driving isn't a right. It's a privilege. Why do you think you have an unassailable, absolute right to operate a multi-ton metallic missile of death capable of mass carnage?

I understand your wanting to trade photo ID for doing away with the EC. Got it. More welfare for you. Do you have a job?

What is this, nonsequitur hour? Yes of course I have a job. Self employed 7 days a week. What about you?

At least Chemicord is honest in saying he believes in having everyone age 18 or above vote. I've just pointed out that I work in CA and I know what "universal suffrage" did to that state.

I live in SoCal. What problems are you referring to?

[Nick Pappageorgio]

Protesting for equality to protect American lives

Trying to overthrow an election because a terrorist didn't win an election

See if you can find the differences between those 2 statements. It is tricky.

Hypocrisy?

[Da Geezer]

How are they maintaining a population if no one goes there and people are fleeing?

They are not maintaining their population. Read the article I posted.

[klondike]

Peaceful protests are one thing exuding power in a violent way is quite another. Both are wrong and I'm not excusing Jan 6th at all. I said they were fringe wackos and don't represent the whole republican party.

[kreton]

Hypocrisy?

Reality.

Which one of those two statements is not true? Also were you able to tell the difference?

[kreton]

Peaceful protests are one thing exuding power in a violent way is quite another. Both are wrong and I'm not excusing Jan 6th at all. I said they were fringe wackos and don't represent the whole republican party.

Yes they do. Or at the very least the vast majority of it.

[Da Geezer]

Stop with the narrative. That is always Trump all the time. With Biden it's just shove a pen in his old shaky hand and keep those college graduate checks coming(2000 taxes for everyone thank you) and insulin for everyone ( which is fine but involves less then 10% of the population) the rest have to keep playing 500 a month more for inflation than when the bad orange man was in charge. The media loves to build on those points that effects minimal of the total population. And if you're against all the other needless spending like the green deal they'll say we're jerks for being against insulin takers. No. We're against the other billions of the bill that won't even start to take effect until 2028-30.

I still would like some prog here to tell me what the Biden administration has done that benefits the USA. I've just never seen anyone try to justify any of his policies. Retreat from Afghanistan? Crippling the O+G industry? Paying people $ 15.00/hr for not working? Paying college debts for deadbeats? There must be something to defend.

**crickets**

[Whitley]

Peaceful protests are one thing exuding power in a violent way is quite another. Both are wrong and I'm not excusing Jan 6th at all. I said they were fringe wackos and don't represent the whole republican party.

Actually through Donald Trump they ARE the Republican Party. Any establishment Republicans are afraid to offend Trump because all it takes is one tweet from Trump and their future is done almost assuredly done in the Republican Party,

In New Hampshire (one of the few places that Trump did not endorse anyone) Republican Senate Primary. The guy that won (a former general I believe) said there is no question Trump should be president, that the US should get rid of the 17th amendment (direct election of senators) and called the current Gov (a republican) a China communist sympathizer. And oh yes, he wants to put boots on the ground in Ukraine.

This is who the Republican Party is now. The only thing that matters is that you must agree with Donald Trump all the time about everything. It is disgusting that is the fault line for the entire American politics right now.