US Politics - 2020 Presidential Election - GOP v Dem cage fight (ENTER AT YOUR PERIL)

[Da Geezer]

Eh... the USA actually isn't a home of innovation much anymore. Quality of living in the good ol' USA is actually near the bottom of all developed nations, because it turns out unfettered capitalism merely breeds tyrants of a different kind. The First Gilded Age was largely a nightmare for the majority of the population, and we're quickly reaching that point nowadays.

Care to post links to show that the quality of life in the US is near the bottom of all developed nations? Remember, I specifically stated that freedom is an important part of quality of life. I suspect we disagree about that.

The WTO rates US innovation as third behind Switzerland and Sweden. Of course, they rank mostly on how closely a country follows their touchstone innovation, the Great Reset.

But what about human nature, which you brought up. What do you figure is the nature of man?

[chemiclord]

Care to post links to show that the quality of life in the US is near the bottom of all developed nations? Remember, I specifically stated that freedom is an important part of quality of life. I suspect we disagree about that.

The WTO rates US innovation as third behind Switzerland and Sweden. Of course, they rank mostly on how closely a country follows their touchstone innovation, the Great Reset.

But what about human nature, which you brought up. What do you figure is the nature of man?

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou.../united-states

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ing-by-country

https://www.worlddata.info/quality-of-life.php

https://ceoworld.biz/2021/06/20/the-...-of-life-2021/

https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-li...by_country.jsp

Hate to break it to ya, but the good ol' USA is pretty far down the list regardless of what list you cite, especially when considering how much wealth it has. We treat ourselves like shit, and the rest of the world has noticed.

And when it comes to "freedom," I tend to find asking how one defines it is important. Among the right wing, I find "freedom" really means "freedom from consequences." They want to say whatever the hell they want, do whatever the hell they want, but how dare you criticize what they say and do? Oddly enough, they have no problem restricting "freedom" among others who don't fit their tribal identity. They don't want LGBT people to express themselves. They don't want people expressing their sexuality. They don't want any public religious displays except their particular denomination. "Freedom" for me, none for thee.

You're going to refuse to read this, and utterly reject its premise if you do, but I find this to be a pretty damn accurate description of what the right defines as "freedom," and frankly I reject their definition. https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com...to-republicans

As for how I define it? Freedom means respecting all expression that does not inherently impinge on other expression. You want to pray before class? Fine. But you don't force others to. Your church wants to excommunicate a gay couple or a woman who had an abortion? Whatever. You don't get to impose those beliefs on the country as a whole. Freedom means that if your boss is treating you like shit, you have the means and the wealth to walk away from that shitty job. It means that if your landlord is a piece of shit, you have the means and wealth to find a new home.

Freedom is not creating such an awful economy where you become a multi-billionaire by exploiting everyone around you. It's funny you mention Elon Musk as an innovator, when he's actually the sort of parasite that ruins freedom. His family got his money on the backs of South African apartheid, and his entire business model is steal or buy someone else's idea and pretend he came up with it. Some "innovator."

It's not an accident that the US was at the top of the world in pretty much every metric during the 50s, where the tax rate on the highest earning bracket for individuals and companies was around 70-90%. A handful of people hoarding wealth (no matter how much of an "innovator" you think they are) does not lend itself to a healthy country. These people make more money than most countries, yet refuse to invest it back in anyone other than themselves. That's a problem. That's a bad thing.

As for human nature; I believe humans tend to be the same tribal creatures that they've been since they differentiated from apes, and it shows in the who they put their trust in. Right now, the immediate threat is from the right taking advantage of that tribalism to push forward their Christian-fascist government, and using archaic Constitutional law to entrench themselves in a state of minority rule.

[Futureshock]

House Oversight Committee chair introduces two bills inspired by Washington Commanders workplace dysfunction

Posted by Mike Florio on June 18, 2022, 12:56 PM EDT

Getty Images

As the U.S. House Committee on Oversight & Reform continues to explore the workplace dysfunction within the Washington Commanders organization, the chair of the Committee has identified two specific areas in which legislation would be useful, due to the lessons learned from the Commanders situation.

On Friday, the Committee announced that Rep. Carolyn Maloney introduced legislation aimed at restricting the use of nondisclosure agreements in an employment setting. She also introduced a bill regarding the use of images obtained of employees within the course of their employment.

The two bills introduced today would establish standards for employers to protect workers and encourage them to foster workplace cultures that aim to prevent — rather than conceal — workplace misconduct,” Maloney said. “I strongly believe that those responsible for the culture of harassment and abuse at the Washington Commanders must be held accountable, and that as lawmakers, we must use our legislative powers to protect other employees from this serious misconduct.”

The statement from the Committee also contains an important passage regarding the NFL’s failure to implement a recommendation made by Mary Jo White in the aftermath of the events that resulted in the abrupt sale of the Panthers.

“In 2018, following the NFL’s investigation into allegations of sexual harassment and discrimination against the then-owner of the Carolina Panthers, Jerry Richardson, the League failed to implement recommendations by an independent investigator to prohibit the use of nondisclosure agreements that ‘limit reporting of potential violations or cooperation in League investigations under the Personal Conduct Policy,'” the Committee said. “As a result, NFL teams such as the Washington Commanders can still use NDAs to evade accountability and silence employees who have experienced or witnessed harassment and discrimination in the workplace.”

Presumably, the league has admitted to the Committee within the confines of the ongoing probe that White’s recommendation was not implemented. Previously, the league had failed to respond to questions regarding whether NDA usage had been limited.

The Accountability for Workplace Misconduct Act, as explained by the Committee, “would safeguard against the abuse of NDAs by prohibiting employers from using these agreements to limit, prevent, or interfere with an employee’s ability to disclose harassment, discrimination, or retaliation to government agencies or Congress.” The law also would create “uniform requirements for employers’ handling of workplace investigations and would improve awareness and transparency of the process for employees.”

The Professional Images Protection Act, per the Committee, “would guard against employer abuse of employee images and ensure that employees have a say in how and when their images are used for business purposes.” This bill flows from the alleged use of outtakes from cheerleader video shoots by team executives.

For those who utter the knee-jerk cry of “Doesn’t Congress have better things to do?” when the House undertakes investigations like this, Congress can indeed do multiple things at once. And these two bills become tangible examples of the potential evolution of employment laws sparked by a specific investigation. in order to limit specific abuses that could be occurring in businesses throughout the nation.

[Da Geezer]

Hate to break it to ya, but the good ol' USA is pretty far down the list regardless of what list you cite, especially when considering how much wealth it has. We treat ourselves like shit, and the rest of the world has noticed.

And when it comes to "freedom," I tend to find asking how one defines it is important. Among the right wing, I find "freedom" really means "freedom from consequences." They want to say whatever the hell they want, do whatever the hell they want, but how dare you criticize what they say and do? Oddly enough, they have no problem restricting "freedom" among others who don't fit their tribal identity. They don't want LGBT people to express themselves. They don't want people expressing their sexuality. They don't want any public religious displays except their particular denomination. "Freedom" for me, none for thee.

You're going to refuse to read this, and utterly reject its premise if you do, but I find this to be a pretty damn accurate description of what the right defines as "freedom," and frankly I reject their definition. https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com...to-republicans

As for how I define it? Freedom means respecting all expression that does not inherently impinge on other expression. You want to pray before class? Fine. But you don't force others to. Your church wants to excommunicate a gay couple or a woman who had an abortion? Whatever. You don't get to impose those beliefs on the country as a whole. Freedom means that if your boss is treating you like shit, you have the means and the wealth to walk away from that shitty job. It means that if your landlord is a piece of shit, you have the means and wealth to find a new home.

Freedom is not creating such an awful economy where you become a multi-billionaire by exploiting everyone around you. It's funny you mention Elon Musk as an innovator, when he's actually the sort of parasite that ruins freedom. His family got his money on the backs of South African apartheid, and his entire business model is steal or buy someone else's idea and pretend he came up with it. Some "innovator."

It's not an accident that the US was at the top of the world in pretty much every metric during the 50s, where the tax rate on the highest earning bracket for individuals and companies was around 70-90%. A handful of people hoarding wealth (no matter how much of an "innovator" you think they are) does not lend itself to a healthy country. These people make more money than most countries, yet refuse to invest it back in anyone other than themselves. That's a problem. That's a bad thing.

As for human nature; I believe humans tend to be the same tribal creatures that they've been since they differentiated from apes, and it shows in the who they put their trust in. Right now, the immediate threat is from the right taking advantage of that tribalism to push forward their Christian-fascist government, and using archaic Constitutional law to entrench themselves in a state of minority rule.

Goodness! A target-rich environment.

(1) First, Musk: From Wiki

Musk has British and Dutch ancestry.

The family was very wealthy in Elon's youth; Elon's father was also elected to the Pretoria City Council as a representative of the anti-apartheid Progressive Party, with the Musk children reportedly sharing their father's dislike of apartheid.^[7] In an interview with The New York Times, Errol said his children had good relationships with Black people, including their domestic staff.^[7] Musk decided not to participate in South Africa's mandatory military service because of the government's apartheid system.^[7] Musk said this contributed to his decision to leave South Africa shortly after graduating from high school.^[7][21]

[jaadam4]

She’s taking the Lord of the Rings / Hobbit look a little too seriously

[Da Geezer]

2. You say "Freedom means that if your boss is treating you like shit, you have the means and the wealth to walk away from that shitty job. It means that if your landlord is a piece of shit, you have the means and wealth to find a new home.

So, to you, freedom involves the means and wealth to walk away from situations you don't like. I've never heard that before. What if you don't have the means to walk away? And notice, you mention a bad landlord and a bad boss. Basically, freedom is getting what you want and not having to live with hardship. I suspect you want "Social Justice" as the way you get the means to walk away.

3. You say It's not an accident that the US was at the top of the world in pretty much every metric during the 50s, where the tax rate on the highest earning bracket for individuals and companies was around 70-90%. A handful of people hoarding wealth (no matter how much of an "innovator" you think they are) does not lend itself to a healthy country. These people make more money than most countries, yet refuse to invest it back in anyone other than themselves. That's a problem. That's a bad thing.

Well, the US was on top of the world because we had just finished the job of conquering the world. The high rates were harmful to the economy and were hold-overs from the war. JFK changed them when he took the Presidency.

But it took Reagan to lower them to the degree that it paid for people to invest money because they could get capital gains rates, setting off the greatest peacetime boom in US history.

Let's get back to those 90% rates though. When you take 90% of what a person produces, he tends to not work as hard because he can't keep what he earns. On the other hand, those who are tax recipients, ie, folks on welfare or folks who "work" for the government, really like high taxes because it is a way of getting money without producing much of anything. I understand where you are coming from.

Productive people like low taxes because they want to keep what they produce. Unproductive people live off the taxes paid by the productive people. They call this "Social Justice" which is really just using the power of the state to take money from those who produce and give it to those who do not produce.

People of the right want more than anything to be left alone, and that means by the government especially. I'm center-right and I have no desire to tell others what to do, other than by persuasion. I was OK with Oberkfel but I'm not OK with teaching 5-8-year-olds about gender identity.

And I get the impression that you are very anti-Christian. Just make sure you are drawing a distinction between the Catholic Church and the Christian church. The Catholic Church believes man is good, and that the Pope talks to God. What could go wrong? Christ taught that man was depraved and needed a savior. Big difference.

[chemiclord]

That might be your opinion of conservative, but it certainly isn't the stance of the Republican Party now. They don't "want to be left alone." They want to impose their morality on the rest of the country.

[Da Geezer]

We disagree. I think we do agree that we don't want someone imposing their morality on us though.

A video I'd appreciate you viewing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtBvQj2k6xo

[chemiclord]

This is the platform of a party that "just wants to be left alone."

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/20/1106229988/texas-gops-new-platform-says-biden-didnt-really-win-it-also-calls-for-secession

[chemiclord]

But to offer my thoughts on the video you linked... theoretically? Yeah social freedoms and economic freedoms are linked, and far left communist parties have made that connection in the past to rally people around them and solidify their singular rule. Modern "social justice," on the other hand, really is focused solely more on social issues (which more economic progressives repeatedly and angrily rail against). The people who want to use social justice as a springboard to their rule are not in power to do so.

If that ever changes, then we can protest that. Until then, the GOP is the near and present danger.

[Whitley]

And the GOP should be out in the wilderness. The only reason they have breath is that the Dems (because they are weak and corrupt) are unwilling to excerise the power they have.


It would be one thing if the Biden administration was fighting for good change and not getting it. But they have just thrown their hands up and basically accepted there is nothing they can do. There are big positive actions that Biden could do via executive order if he had the will to do so. But he doesn't.

[Futureshock]

She’s taking the Lord of the Rings / Hobbit look a little too seriously

A lot of politicians are like that. Biden looks like someone pulled the skin back on his face too tight. Moscow Mitch and Nancypalooza looks like characters from Men In Black

It's revenge of the nerds

[Da Geezer]

But to offer my thoughts on the video you linked... theoretically? Yeah social freedoms and economic freedoms are linked, and far left communist parties have made that connection in the past to rally people around them and solidify their singular rule. Modern "social justice," on the other hand, really is focused solely more on social issues (which more economic progressives repeatedly and angrily rail against). The people who want to use social justice as a springboard to their rule are not in power to do so.

If that ever changes, then we can protest that. Until then, the GOP is the near and present danger.

What "social justice" is, everywhere and always, is income redistribution.

At the end of the day, the non-productive people want to use the government to take wealth from those who have earned it by their work and give it to voters who are either on welfare or "work" for the government. Social Justice Warriors are merely the losers in society who band together to have the government take from those who work and give to those who don't work

Both you and Whitley view the Constitution as something to overcome. Conservatives view it as a social contract among citizens on the rules we live by. There are ways to change the Constitution, but you and Whitley don't want to go through the process of amendment.

[Da Geezer]

And the GOP should be out in the wilderness. The only reason they have breath is that the Dems (because they are weak and corrupt) are unwilling to excerise the power they have.


It would be one thing if the Biden administration was fighting for good change and not getting it. But they have just thrown their hands up and basically accepted there is nothing they can do. There are big positive actions that Biden could do via executive order if he had the will to do so. But he doesn't.

I've never understood why those like you who want to live off the government don't go about amending the Constitution. What are the "big, positive actions" Biden could do using executive orders?

The Founders gave us a government that works slowly. No group of colonels is going to overthrow our government some Saturday evening. Our government is just too unwieldy for that to happen, which is why the vast majority of citizens laugh at Jan 6 and all the hullabaloo that has gone on about it. It was a political riot with the stated purpose of stopping the certification of an election. Bad, but there was no chance that 2,500 unarmed rioters were going to overthrow the US Federal government.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

Geezer….that only goes so far.

The truly wealthy own too much…vast amounts of wealth. I’m not even talking about Bezos or Gates here….the truly wealthy that hide behind multi-nationals. Dutch/Jewish bankers, Saudi royals, Asian oligarchs, the American industrialists. Look at the way real estate is being snapped up by wealthy investors at the expense of citizens and families….it’s disgusting and not what this American dream is supposed to be….it’s capitalism taken too far. But politicians are doing nothing to protect the avg. Joe here.

The problem is that to many on the left…well, if you’re a hammer everything Looks like a nail. To the poor, the middle class look rich…so they’re as happy taking from them as they would be a truly wealthy individual. The middle class ARE the people who worked for it….the wealthy, mostly, inherited it. But redistribution/entitlement programs hit the middle class wallets hard….remember how Biden was only going to tax the rich? If you’re a married couple making over 100k…your taxes went up several percent.

The middle class is always paying the bills for the wealthy…and the left calls them deplorable racists when they complain.