US Politics - 2020 Presidential Election - GOP v Dem cage fight (ENTER AT YOUR PERIL)

[Futureshock]

Sure. The Peaceful Protests were about rioting.

Tying the two is the biggest lie. The only equivalent would be saying Trump and his crew raided the Congressional building on that infamous January 6th.

The Peaceful protesters did not riot. That was other people. In some cases it was people trying to make it seem like they were. They all (rioters) should have been arrested and investigated. No matter what race, creed or political alliance.

Even engaging in that whole mindfu(k is a lie.

See. That's how grown ups talk. We don't make excuses for poor behavior. We don't go, "What about..."

[kayrone]

It is a ridiculous straw man and false equivalency.

Any time the attempted coup, and make no mistake, that is what it was, comes up, the people that get their talking points from FOX and other bullshit right wing sites start this whataboutism bullshit.

Indeed. I generally stay out of political conversations, (I live in central Indiana FFS) but the mention of Seattle got my attention. During the Jan 6 hearings, one of my colleagues tried to compare the insurrection to "what happened in Seattle" and I had no idea what he was talking about. So I said "Wait - what happened in Seattle? Did they try to hang Mike Pence there, too?" I never did get any response, but at least he doesn't try to talk about politics with me anymore.

[-Deborah-]

I saw the same comments from some old HS friends on FB at the time. Something along the lines of: "I don't want hear anything about Jan 6th after what happened in Seattle!" The similar verbiage makes me think Fox News told them to think that.

🤷♀️

[wcfwtf]

Lived in Seattle for 14 years.
every year on may 1, the Russian day thingy Antif would destroy property and face off with police.
it was never peaceful

[Sanders Fan]

Showing that idiot Shaman dude being escorted around doesn't mean the other stuff didn't happen or wasn't real. It means it was taken out of context to the entirely of his visit.

All meant to manipulate YOU into thinking things didn't happen that actually did. I'm concerned about THAT.

He was definitely a criminal and the events of Jan 6 were vile. My only problem is apparently his legal team did not get to see all the video and they should have been allowed to see all the video.

[Fraquar]

Got to be honest here. All Jan 6 showed me is the Core Federal Govenment had NO security that day.
Personally I was expecting a body count and was surprised when there was none.
I mean shit, they leave the security of a building that is currently housing no fewer than 3 of the top 4 people in line of succession to the Presidency to "local police"?
That shit wasn't a one-off either, that was business as usual. Scary to think what the people who actually want to do harm to this country who have no real value on their life would think watching that. "Shit, this will be easier than the Twin Towers"...... Just be patient until they lull themselves into a false sense of security again......

Added: I've guarded Generals houses in Germany that had more security than the Capitol building did that day - and those guys left you no option. You enter the house you are dead - no questions asked. It meant you bypassed at least 2 other levels of security. That was for 1 General - and he wasn't even there..........

[Sanders Fan]

I don’t think the Capitol Police even did fire drills. There was a former officer who posted somewhere online, maybe it was Reddit, that said that management was horrible and nobody treated the police there with any respect, most of all the congresspersons themselves and staffers. Another former officer came out and said when he called for guidance during the rioting outside he was met with silence from supervision.

[wcfwtf]

Political theatre
More security at a baseball game
The more drama the politicians can create and allow only give strength to their voice that the other side is bad.

[CGVT]

I did my taxes last night. Let me start off by saying I have no problem paying what I paid. I think taxes are a necessity of a civilized society. Of course, YMMV, but..

Man, there has to be a way to simplify this shit. It took me over 4 hours to get the fuckers done. My brain was melting as I finished.

istockphoto-1309886180-612x612.jpg

[chemiclord]

Oh, it's absolutely easy to simplify shit. Ask just about any citizen in Europe how easy your taxes could be.

But then rich people wouldn't have as many ways to hide their money from the thieving government, and ya know... we can't have that, now can we?

[JGSpartan]

The problem is there are good legitimate reasons for some tax breaks. Especially for smaller businesses and lower income folks. Those aren't the people with sway though. Big business is. So they abuse their power to help themselves to benefits that really shouldn't be there for them while getting people to go along with them because it's the only way they will get the help they need.

The country badly needs good rational centrist candidates in both parties willing to negotiate breaks for those in need while not massively overspending to increase the tax burden so much on the wealthy. People aren't interested in that though. They want far right, fat left tribal bullshit so we are doomed to either far too much or far too little. That's just the financial implications..the social ones make things far worse.

tl:dr
We Fucked.

[Trickalicious]

Things that should be flat:

Pancakes.
Bob Dylan high E notes.
A cat aft of a steam roller.
The Earth.
Cola remaining after a Crown Royal blackout.
An ADHD skydiver.
Taxes.

[chemiclord]

The fundamental problem with a "Flat Tax" is that it winds up hitting lower-income people and families disproportionately harder than the wealthy.

https://itep.org/the-pitfalls-of-flat-income-taxes/

Basically, 16% to someone making 50k is going to impact them a lot harder than 16% of someone making 500k; and the instant you start making exceptions, you no longer have a flat fax, you have a graduated one with a lower ceiling than before. Our wealthiest citizens have pretty resoundingly demonstrated that they aren't using lower taxes to "create jobs" or "be more charitable." They're using it to hoard wealth that they will never spend, and nothing more.

[CGVT]

The fundamental problem with a "Flat Tax" is that it winds up hitting lower-income people and families disproportionately harder than the wealthy.

https://itep.org/the-pitfalls-of-flat-income-taxes/

Basically, 16% to someone making 50k is going to impact them a lot harder than 16% of someone making 500k; and the instant you start making exceptions, you no longer have a flat fax, you have a graduated one with a lower ceiling than before. Our wealthiest citizens have pretty resoundingly demonstrated that they aren't using lower taxes to "create jobs" or "be more charitable." They're using it to hoard wealth that they will never spend, and nothing more.

Yep. I would like to see a graduated flat rate based on income. Higher earners pay a higher percent. Get rid of all of the loopholes and everyone pays based on all income

You make 100K? You pay XX%

You make 500K? You pay XX%

[chemiclord]

Yep. I would like to see a graduated flat rate based on income. Higher earners pay a higher percent. Get rid of all of the loopholes and everyone pays based on all income

You make 100K? You pay XX%

You make 500K? You pay XX%

Congratulations, you've for the most part emulated the majority of European nations.

Now, what I'll also say is that a graduated tax isn't particularly a good answer to wealth hoarders, or even much of an answer at all. For example, the wealthiest man in the world now that Elon Musk has decided to torch approximately 30% of his wealth is a Frenchman.

The biggest issue with the "ultra-wealthy" is that the money they accumulate might as well not be there (to the extent that any of the fiat wealth these people claim is really there). They artificially inflate the strength of an economy and create a reality that gets increasingly more dire for anyone not them. And in a capitalist system, where the movement of money is essential, that eventually becomes a massive problem.

Now, I'm not convinced that "taxing them into oblivion" is much of an answer either. Governmental spending is wasteful (and to a degree that is unavoidable; government isn't business, you can't run them the same and expect the same results), and so to some extent, you wind up dumping the money into a different pit. Do you prefer the pit that has no bottom, or the one that's on fire?

I am intrigued by the idea of a graduated tax along with a "tether law," basically something that requires that the highest compensation in a business cannot exceed [x] times the lowest compensation in that same company. The theory there is that if these companies are going to ridiculously pay the highest rung on the ladder, at the very least they can help pull everyone else up. The problem there that I struggle to see any such law overcoming is that you eventually wind up with a handful of companies becoming artificially desirable and thus stymieing the competition and innovation that are the supposed cornerstones of capitalist systems.