Coronavirus Safety Protocol - please read and discuss

[TheLondonLion]

The only country that knows what happened is China. It’s really not that big of a conspiracy. They’re hardly renowned for their openness and transparency. Just doctors reporting the illness led to them being arrested.

There’s plenty of evidence of how sketchy the Chinese government have been regarding the laboratory. Try this one..

A World Health Organisation mission to study the covid pandemic’s origins in China, which announced in February that the possibility that the virus had escaped from a laboratory needed no further investigation,1 was put under pressure by Chinese scientists who made up half the team to reach that conclusion, the scientist who led the mission has said.

Peter Ben Embarek, who led the scientists dispatched by WHO to Wuhan, told a Danish television documentary, broadcast on 12 August, that the Chinese scientists refused to even discuss the lab leak scenario2unless the final report dismissed any need for further investigation.

Having haggled about it until 48 hours before they left China, Ben Embarek said, his Chinese counterpart eventually agreed to discuss the lab leak theory in the report “on the condition we didn’t recommend any specific studies to further that hypothesis.”

What do they have to hide? This is why a lot of you instinctively think it’s from nature - because leading scientists have been co-opted by Chinese coercion or because they are compromised themselves.

It’s not surprising that viruses come from nature. What is surprising is the location of where this happened - over a thousand miles from where the bats live in Southern China (where SARs broke out). The only evidence we have of bats being transported to Wuhan is from Chinese scientists back to the Wuhan laboratory (where they were kept).

[Fraquar]

I thought science was testing hypotheses - not dismissing them because it’s politically expedient or playing amateur diplomat.

There are huge conflicts of interest, from Fauci’s NIH funding this kind of dangerous research in China to the guy who shut down all discussion of the lab leak and was the only American on the first WHO inquiry…who turned out to be one of the lab’s closest and longest partners.

The whole thing stinks of being the biggest cover up of all time from where I’m standing. I realize talking about it on a Lions forum probably isn’t going to get us the answers, but I feel strongly that we aren’t asking questions of huge importance to humanity.

We can ask all the questions we want, the Government will tell you what it wants you to know - and no more.
The Government will even enact laws it has no intention of even abiding by - just to appease the public.

[froot loops]

If you don't want to be compared Dr Joe Rogan and Donald Trump Junior, don't carry their water. You sound like a Trumper. Before the lab leak hypothesis, you were castigating the Chinese people for eating bats. Same like the Foxbots.

Any investigation worth anything is not going to be conducted in the public forum so the FoxBots can get their pound of flesh.

[edindetroit]

You sound like a Trumper.

Trumpette

[chemiclord]

The only country that knows what happened is China. It’s really not that big of a conspiracy. They’re hardly renowned for their openness and transparency. Just doctors reporting the illness led to them being arrested.

You really want China to be this juggernaut of evil, don't you? China's really good at making stories go away (for example Tianamen Square, or more recently Peng Shuai). They aren't very good at stopping a big bombshell news story before it becomes one. No government is, for what it's worth. The more likely scenario of a lab leak in the Wuhan Institute of Virology would have went something like this:

1) Reports emerge that there was a breach in the virus lab.
2) Chinese officials would suppress and silence further reports within days, possibly hours if they are able to respond quickly.
3) Radio silence for a month or two.
4) Virus "inexplicably" pops up worldwide, and people remember those early reports.

But every account, and in fact every action by the PRC suggests this took them just as much by surprise as it did everyone else. Even their secrecy and belligerence in the face of questioning isn't out of form. They treat every question as an affront. Getting anything out of them about anything is like pulling teeth. They are petulant almost out of principle at times. None of this is a particularly compelling argument they are hiding something.

It’s not surprising that viruses come from nature. What is surprising is the location of where this happened - over a thousand miles from where the bats live in Southern China (where SARs broke out). The only evidence we have of bats being transported to Wuhan is from Chinese scientists back to the Wuhan laboratory (where they were kept).

Sure... if you ignore the hundreds (if not thousands) of live or freshly butchered bats that exist in squalor in tight spaces right next to other live or freshly butchered animals in the many "wet markets" around and in Wuhan.

You know... the exact perfect conditions for novel viruses to emerge, and in fact has happened multiple times. It's actually why Wuhan was selected as the location for that lab, because that area is a wonderful little province-sized petri dish for disease. Yeah... novel viruses, and even novel coronaviruses have been popping up quite literally every year in locations like Wuhan. But, as is the nature of random DNA and RNA scrambling, most wind up fizzling out before they can do much more than get a handful of people or animals sick.

But, in rare circumstances, a strand of RNA wins the protein lottery, and we get something like this. The only particularly unique thing about SARS-COV-2 is that it mutates at a rate similar to coronaviruses that contribute to the common cold rather than the original SARS virus, which didn't have that same staying power.

Now, with all that said, is it possible that this was the result of a lab leak, and there is this massive effort to keep that truth from being revealed? That the PRC happened to be able to jump on this before it ever leaked out and were able to use their various links of influence to keep that secret for two years at this point? Sure. It's absolutely possible. But the number of moving parts involved to not only keep it a secret then, much less now is a bit much to swallow when a more reasonable and simpler explanation that fully matches the timelines and checks off every single box exists.

[froot loops]

The London Lion acts as if China is the only place where officials and media would cover up a pandemic. There's a reason why it's called The Spanish Flu and it certainly isn't because it originated there. Both the US and Britain covered it up. The ghastly Philadelphia parade killed thousands of people because of that censorship.

[TheLondonLion]

The London Lion acts as if China is the only place where officials and media would cover up a pandemic. There's a reason why it's called The Spanish Flu and it certainly isn't because it originated there. Both the US and Britain covered it up. The ghastly Philadelphia parade killed thousands of people because of that censorship.

That was 100 years ago during a war. Not comparable to today. I guarantee if that happened in the UK or US, it would’ve been reported to the WHO immediately.

China have form for this - they also tried to conceal SARs for months on end, until the WHO sent them a dossier taken from online posts from Chinese doctors and people started dying in other Asian countries. They reported it the very next day.

[TheLondonLion]

You really want China to be this juggernaut of evil, don't you? China's really good at making stories go away (for example Tianamen Square, or more recently Peng Shuai). They aren't very good at stopping a big bombshell news story before it becomes one. No government is, for what it's worth. The more likely scenario of a lab leak in the Wuhan Institute of Virology would have went something like this:

1) Reports emerge that there was a breach in the virus lab.
2) Chinese officials would suppress and silence further reports within days, possibly hours if they are able to respond quickly.
3) Radio silence for a month or two.
4) Virus "inexplicably" pops up worldwide, and people remember those early reports.

But every account, and in fact every action by the PRC suggests this took them just as much by surprise as it did everyone else. Even their secrecy and belligerence in the face of questioning isn't out of form. They treat every question as an affront. Getting anything out of them about anything is like pulling teeth. They are petulant almost out of principle at times. None of this is a particularly compelling argument they are hiding something.



Sure... if you ignore the hundreds (if not thousands) of live or freshly butchered bats that exist in squalor in tight spaces right next to other live or freshly butchered animals in the many "wet markets" around and in Wuhan.

You know... the exact perfect conditions for novel viruses to emerge, and in fact has happened multiple times. It's actually why Wuhan was selected as the location for that lab, because that area is a wonderful little province-sized petri dish for disease. Yeah... novel viruses, and even novel coronaviruses have been popping up quite literally every year in locations like Wuhan. But, as is the nature of random DNA and RNA scrambling, most wind up fizzling out before they can do much more than get a handful of people or animals sick.

But, in rare circumstances, a strand of RNA wins the protein lottery, and we get something like this. The only particularly unique thing about SARS-COV-2 is that it mutates at a rate similar to coronaviruses that contribute to the common cold rather than the original SARS virus, which didn't have that same staying power.

Now, with all that said, is it possible that this was the result of a lab leak, and there is this massive effort to keep that truth from being revealed? That the PRC happened to be able to jump on this before it ever leaked out and were able to use their various links of influence to keep that secret for two years at this point? Sure. It's absolutely possible. But the number of moving parts involved to not only keep it a secret then, much less now is a bit much to swallow when a more reasonable and simpler explanation that fully matches the timelines and checks off every single box exists.

A few problems with this:

- Bats weren’t sold at the Wuhan market. They were 1000 miles away, in the middle of winter hibernation

- It’s very possible that local CCP officials in Wuhan covered it up from central government, in fact - there’s evidence that this was the case. If they arrested doctors for trying to spread awareness, what would they do to a whistleblower?

- There were Chinese academic papers saying it was likely a lab leak, swiftly censored and then a law passed saying all origins discussion had to go through central government.

- There are only I believe 5-6 coronaviruses that infect humans. Most make up the common cold, the others are SARs and MERS which didn’t take off because they weren’t highly infectious to humans. In both cases, the intermediary animal was quickly identified.

- COVID 19 doesn’t infect animals very well and in fact is unable to infect even bats.

- The WIV admitted that researchers were hospitalized with viral symptoms in October 2019. It’s in the WHO report.

- Viruses of this kind do NOT pop up in Wuhan, let me quote Shi Zhengli, the lady that was running these dangerous experiments:

“I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?”

Anything else you’d like to be wrong about? I don’t sound like a Trumper and I’m not a Trumper. I can’t stand Donald Trump. It’s a lazy, facile accusation. Sanjay Gupta, CNN’s chief medical correspondent is one of many on the left who believe this to be the most plausible explanation.

[Fraquar]

That was 100 years ago during a war. Not comparable to today. I guarantee if that happened in the UK or US, it would’ve been reported to the WHO immediately.

China have form for this - they also tried to conceal SARs for months on end, until the WHO sent them a dossier taken from online posts from Chinese doctors and people started dying in other Asian countries. They reported it the very next day.

Well they did report it to the WHO, at the very end of 2019. All hell broke loose in 2020.
The reality is the WHO, Dr. Fauci and the rest of the world didn't know what they were dealing with.
Hence the memo from Dr. Fauci saying wearing masks was more harmful than beneficial in Feb of 2020.
Of course we all know the later 180'd from that stance.

[TheLondonLion]

China was claiming it wasn’t human to human transmissible (parroted by the WHO) into mid-January, allowing flights to leave Wuhan airport which seeding the virus around the world while shutting off the province from the rest of their mainland. The claim about human to human transmission was bare faced deception as they were already treating viral clusters.

There is a lot of cynicism over China’s alleged timeline and many, including Fauci believe it was circulating for a while previously (in the whole arresting doctor and citizen journalists phase).

When it comes to public health - I wouldn’t trust China as far as I could throw it.

[Fraquar]

That doesn't make sense. If it was circulating "for a while" you'd have likely had a pretty good body count that even censorship can't hide.
Telling the WHO what you got and the WHO dictating to governments to shut down ALL AIR TRAVEL - that is two totally different things - when the WHO doesn't even know what they are dealing with yet. You are talking billions here, governments don't shut down air travel without some real credible scientific information - which didn't exist until well into Feb 2020.

[TheLondonLion]

They were literally censoring doctors reporting it into 2020,

There are studies which date it from mid October - https://health.ucsd.edu/news/release...han-china.aspx

Co-incidentally around the same time as workers at the Wuhan Lab were hospitalized with a virus.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/wuhan-lab-staff-sought-hospital-care-before-covid-19-outbreak-disclosed-wsj-2021-05-23/

I’m amazed anyone could look at the ample circumstantial evidence that this was a lab leak and genuinely think “from nature” is a more likely explanation, but there you go. It’s not impossible, but either way we need to know what the fuck happened.

[Fraquar]

Did you read every article, and the articles that were linked to those?

The findings, first reported by the Associated Press, match what WHO experts have said previously about their conclusions following a Jan-Feb visit to the central Chinese city of Wuhan where the first human cases were detected in late 2019.

Three laboratories in Wuhan working with coronaviruses had "well-managed", high-quality biosafety levels, and there had been no reports of compatible respiratory illness among staff during the preceding months, the report said.

Nor had they tested positive for the SARS-CoV-2 virus in subsequent blood screening for antibodies, the report said.

"In view of the above, a laboratory origin of the pandemic was considered to be extremely unlikely," it said.

I'm no medical expert, beyond picking the right sized band-aid for the cut I have. Those WHO guys are, and they said no workers tested positive for SARS-CoV2.

Only reason I even saw this is you posted it.

[JGSpartan]

Why do we have to know what happened? The consequences of digging into that are worse than the virus. Our countries will continue to study infectious diseases and their spread either way. Engineering viruses and developing vaccines is not exclusive to China. You gonna tell them they can't study shit?

[Fraquar]

Why do we have to know what happened? The consequences of digging into that are worse than the virus. Our countries will continue to study infectious diseases and their spread either way. Engineering viruses and developing vaccines is not exclusive to China. You gonna tell them they can't study shit?

If there was indeed a human factor involved in the release and spread of COVID-19, then indeed we do need to know.
Either to understand the protocols needed to be implemented to keep it from happening again in an unintentional event
OR
To deal with those responsible for it's intentional release.

At the end of the day you'd hope this all comes out in the wash. Sad thing is with politics involved, that can be a muddy affair.