Coronavirus Safety Protocol - please read and discuss

[dpatnod]

Here ya go

https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+herd+immunity&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS857US857&oq=&aqs=chrome.0.69i59i450l8.124378024j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[chemiclord]

You expect him to actually absorb evidence that would run contrary to the alternate universe he's constructed in his own head?

You have more faith in him than I do.

[chemiclord]

At the end of the day, all of ULF's long winded manifestos boil down to one thing:

He has very little human empathy, and doesn't feel he should sacrifice any element of the life he wants to live for the sake of anyone else, much less people he will never really know. Every little bullshit rationale and playing down of the pandemic (and any of his other Anarchy 101 screeds, for that matter) can be distilled to that very simple observation.

And if he were honest with himself and us and just say as much, we'd all mutter "Christ, what an asshole" and walk away. Instead, we're saying "Christ, what an asshole" and laughing at his bullshit.

Go ten miles out of any major population center and you'll find about four or five ULFs in any given hundred people. He's merely a more tiringly verbose version of those "rugged individualists" who spend half their day in the bar, scowling and sneering about the filthy gubbermint, and they are just such manly men of the earth that if the whole country and society collapsed tomorrow, they'd be JUST FINE, swear to God!

[dpatnod]

I guess some people can't comprehend that, yes it is a virus. But this one is different from the usual ones. You know, like we've seen in the past. Plague, Spanish Flu, etc. It's like having a dishwasher not working, vs. having your kitchen on fire. Different situations call for different responses, but some people are insisting 'just jiggle the handle' while we're all standing in 5 feet of water.

[dpatnod]

What did Sweden teach you about herd immunity Dr. dpatnod?

I'll go back and edit the question to make it so you can answer A, B, or C.

A) if you never heard of it, I can't blame you. There was essentially a media blackout. Here's your opportunity. Go look it up. It's short and sweet, and there's even a FAQ for you to get answers to the questions your certain to ask.

B) If you heard of it, and you saw "fact checking" or direct attacks on it, and you allowed yourself to disregard it, you're a victim of statism and scientism.

C) If you jumped on the bandwagon and argued against it, you're beyond any help.

OK, given those choices by you, put me down for A, looked it up. Also put me down for B. Because of proven research, an experimental example in Sweden, fukkin Google, https://www.infectioncontroltoday.co...on-declaration. Plus frequently talking to my sister, a Dr. in Seattle. As well as my job training about this exact thing. And just common sense.

Guess I'm a 'victim of statism and scientism'. Dude.

And I'll probably jump on the bandwagon against irresponsible stupidity. Guess one of each then.

I don't believe the Great Barrington Declaration is some irrefutable tomb of ancient wisdom from the gods.

So I guess we just don't agree.

[Marko69]

So ( <—— preceding a question; a legal so) .... who the fick is correct then?

TGBD ....... interesting read and some very credible names amongst the professionals who’ve signed the Dec ...... 🤷♂️

Or

Infection control today; No doubt correct in their explanations of how viruses can be controlled (japan, Vietnam, NZ etc etc) but are voiced by people who are in the same profession and no doubt equal professional level as TGBD “experts”. 🤷♂️

Jaysus H, didn’t know about TGBD and no wonder there is a great divide across the world and no doubt explains why we see some people blatantly avoiding rules, ie no masks, no hand wash entering shops etc....... they’ve probably read TGBD and why would some not “believe”? It’s all credible doctors and epidemidemidemichemidemi people who’ve signed it.

I don’t know. I’ve only ever been in the gas industry since leaving school and the only thing I can compare it to is the head of Gas Safe Uk releasing a declaration changing really important legislation.
Engineer 1: “Fuck that guy. That’s dangerous!”
Engineer 2: “Yeah, but it’s HIM. He’s a Gas God!”

Poor example but I’m understanding the worlds Covid conflict better this morning.

Better go find a toilet, this Gas God had Brussels Sprouts for dinner last night.,

[chemiclord]

It's funny how he accuses people of not using the Scientific Method and instead relying on unsupported word of authority (sciencism, as he mockingly calls it)...

While religiously propping up a non-cited, unsupported, declaration... that doesn't demonstrate any methodology they used... to reach their... conclusion...

...

Hunh.

Curious. It's almost like every accusation from ULF is actually a confession.

[unknown lions fan]

So here's the point:

There is conflicting information out there. There are scientists and experts on both sides of a debate. There is uncertainty.

Here is why I chose as I did:

1. First rule: Where there is uncertainty, I always default to individuals making their own decisions to deal with it. The authoritarian paradigm is a certainty philosophy - One Best Solution to fit all circumstances and apply to everyone, backed by violence.
2. I see one side referencing a hundred years of best practices. I see another side throwing out all previous understanding of viruses.
3. I see one side suggesting what I do in light of the problem, and another one telling me what I must do, and advocating state violence to force me to do what they prescribe.
4. I see one side stifling information that does not support their position. I see them shouting down any attempt to debate. I don't think that's very scientific...In fact, that's the exact opposite of science - scientism.

Pretty easy choice, for me.

You may read the Great Barrington Declaration and still decide to be afraid. You may choose to stay inside and wear a mask. That is your prerogative. You are an individual, responsible for your own safety and your choices. I present it here because you should know that there is no consensus.

[unknown lions fan]

Take note of how those who beg to be ruled (and demand that you be ruled) project their paradigm on you if you choose to think for yourself.

If you present information that they object to, they'll say you're prescribing the one right solution in a world of uncertainty, just as they do.

Having then attached the perspective to you as your prescription for everyone, they'll attack the science because it disagrees with their authoritarians. They'll bombard the perspective they reject, the one that does not support their authoritarian paradigm, as though they're scientists themselves. Let the google wars begin.

Then they'll try to scream you down as selfish. A collectivist tool of conformance.

[Marko69]

This thread is now messing with my head. I’m like my cat, Alan, chasing my tail around and around and around. A complete and utter mind fuck. Paracetamol / ibuprofen required.

[chemiclord]

So... there's conflicting information, and you've discarded what you don't want to beleive, and accepting on faith what supports your conclusion?

Sounds like sciencism to me, you filthy statist.

[Futureshock]

At the end of the day, all of ULF's long winded manifestos boil down to one thing:

He has very little human empathy, and doesn't feel he should sacrifice any element of the life he wants to live for the sake of anyone else, much less people he will never really know. Every little bullshit rationale and playing down of the pandemic (and any of his other Anarchy 101 screeds, for that matter) can be distilled to that very simple observation.

And if he were honest with himself and us and just say as much, we'd all mutter "Christ, what an asshole" and walk away. Instead, we're saying "Christ, what an asshole" and laughing at his bullshit.

Go ten miles out of any major population center and you'll find about four or five ULFs in any given hundred people. He's merely a more tiringly verbose version of those "rugged individualists" who spend half their day in the bar, scowling and sneering about the filthy gubbermint, and they are just such manly men of the earth that if the whole country and society collapsed tomorrow, they'd be JUST FINE, swear to God!

Truthfully, he, much like DWT has gotten to a point that he knows his crap is irritating (to some) so I would guess that his efforts are closer to farting on elevators and laughing at everyone gagging then real things HE is going to make an effort to make happen. Just like with DWT he just needs the interaction.

His first post that started this string of posts was, "Why is my morning sports cycle being interrupted with..." Yet more then a week later, here we are still having this drivel.

[unknown lions fan]

So... there's conflicting information, and you've discarded what you don't want to beleive, and accepting on faith what supports your conclusion?

Congratulations! That is your first post with any semblance of genuine inquiry, or any attempt to clarify understanding.

Re-read what I said. I am facing a world of uncertainty. I see conflicting information. I need to choose a course of action, because action is necessary as a human. I choose to carry on, to not lock down, to not wear a face diaper.

From my perspective, I can choose to be paralyzed by fear, or I can get on with life. I can also choose to submit to those using "their science" to advance an authoritarian agenda, or I can disregard them.

Now - isn't your first sentence an exact description of what YOU do? And are you projecting YOUR paradigm on me?

[unknown lions fan]

Statist bingo card:

Which of you will be first to bring out the collectivist "society" and "selfish" arguments to enforce your authoritarian agenda, whilst signaling how virtuous you are for being obedient and caring?

[chemiclord]

Congratulations! That is your first post with any semblance of genuine inquiry, or any attempt to clarify understanding.

Re-read what I said. I am facing a world of uncertainty. I see conflicting information. I need to choose a course of action, because action is necessary as a human. I choose to carry on, to not lock down, to not wear a face diaper.

From my perspective, I can choose to be paralyzed by fear, or I can get on with life. I can also choose to submit to those using "their science" to advance an authoritarian agenda, or I can disregard them.

Now - isn't your first sentence an exact description of what YOU do? And are you projecting YOUR paradigm on me?

The difference between you and me is that I don't pretend otherwise. Yes, I do lean on the scientific consensus. And I revise those opinions if there is compelling evidence that the consensus is wrong (the consensus usually beats me to it, for what it's worth). That Wordpress quality webpage that hosts the Barrington Declaration doesn't even remotely come close to providing actual evidence of their claims, for the record.

I don't post stupid reddit-level meme images of "The Scientific Method" vs "Sciencism" and boast I'm doing the former while I'm actually doing the latter.

The real Scientific Method (since you clearly don't know what it actually is) is a rigorously documented process of hypothesis, experimentation, and conclusion; not the pithy bullshit you're spewing. You're just hooking onto experts that tell you what you want to hear; which is ironically what you ridicule others for doing.

You don't want to wear a mask. You don't want to be restricted where you travel. You don't want to pay taxes. You don't want to be told what to do. And you've sought out people who will tell you that's okay. Whatever. But that doesn't make you some individualistic intellectual that sees the truth beyond the veil, unlike "the sheep."

It just makes you a hypocrite.