Coronavirus Safety Protocol - please read and discuss

[Futureshock]

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days

In the last 7 days:

TOTAL CASES
22,522,749
+199,793 New Cases


TOTAL DEATHS

375,124
+1,957 New Deaths

[Futureshock]

Wow, so sad.

I know of some kids who have only their grand parents because it has killed their parents and their Aunts and Uncles.

[Marko69]

My wife's boss lost 9 members of his family to Covid. I doubt that he would call it a cult. Try to wrap your head around losing 9 members of your family to this.

NINE?? Has your wife’s boss got a MASSIVE family to make that stat tie in with, well the stats basically? Fuckin hell, that’s a lot of family members.
Can only assume that it’s a genetic weakness in the lungs possibly. That’s a real shame.

Most I’ve heard over here is two people in same family.

I just counted up my family, uncles, aunts, cousins, 2nd cousins, in laws etc etc.
103 people. No ones died thankfully.
No idea how many have had covid. Fairly sure a few of them.

[Marko69]

I know of some kids who have only their grand parents because it has killed their parents and their Aunts and Uncles.

Again....... that’s very close to being unbelievable and equally very sad.

Not joking or trying be an asshole here, but things really do happen so much worse in America.

[unknown lions fan]

No matter what the problem is, any attempt to "solve" it with violence will only make matters worse.

I wish I could concede that it's even ineffective or an earnest try. But I can't , because it's not. It's axiomatic that the use of force on a complex dynamic problem will make matters worse in a billion different ways - the resultant problem is an issue of the seen and the unseen. The negative effects of the use of force are myriad and always there, but are usually unseen, or won't be seen because of some blinders on our perception.

I can give a thousand examples of the unseen, and if asked in an earnest query I'll offer a few.

But I am not interested in a consequentialist debate where we both start with our positions and then google-fight with information that supports our position. It bores me.

I prefer to function in the deontological realm, and I summed up my position in the first sentence. I'd be happy to discuss the details of my position in that regard.

I'm not interested in appeals to fear or emotion. I know people have suffered and died. I do not discount that reality nor in any way gloss over the suffering of others.

The death count could be 10X higher than it is, and my position would not change. So do not try to paint me as a horrible, unfeeling person. It won't work.

[unknown lions fan]

I wrote that before I read Futureshock's accusations that I'm a trumpster (lol, come on...really...still?) his chatty-Cathy death count statistics, and his attempts to paint me as horrible.

I haven't forgotten that I dropped in here a month ago and sarcastically mentioned that they're stacking bodies on the sidewalk in my town, and Futureshock didn't even bother to validate the claim in any way... he just bought it hook, line and sinker.

I was taken aback because I didn't expect anyone to buy it. I expected to be attacked for making jokes in the light of such tragedy.

This is the characteristic of the True Believer. The american people are so engrossed in their orgy of newsfearporn and authoritarian control, that anything that fuels their emotion is automatically accepted and anything that counters their beliefs are ritualistically attacked.

Hence the term cult.

[chemiclord]

Yes, yes... you've established many times by now that you don't care about anyone other than yourself and MAYBE a handful of close relations.

Which would be fine... if you kept your verbose, meandering bullshit amongst your in-group and left the rest of us out of it.

Then again, you're probably here because they are tired of hearing your voice at this point as well.

[froot loops]

ULF's whole existence is to inform us how much more enlightened he is and how much we are sheep.

All I know is they should be sparring no expense getting these vaccines made and sparing no expense admistering them. I'm talking round the clock vaccinations as much as possible. Right they are limited by the supply but there should change in time.

[-Deborah-]

Sounds like you have an issue with his reaction and are now lumping those who are concerned about the pandemic into a "cult." It's difficult to get past that. The healthcare system is getting overwhelmed and the long term effects of the virus on those who survive are not good. That is enough for me to take precautions and hope that others will do the same so I and my loved ones can avoid infection. Meanwhile, I have loved ones who have other health issues but are refusing to seek medical help because they fear catching the virus. I fear that by the time they actually HAVE TO seek help, they may be turned away because resources will be consumed by virus patients. I have a hard time relating any of that to a cult.

I agree you're not a Trumper but it's odd how you haven't called out THAT particular cult (that I've seen) when that one really has all the makings of one. "A religion or sect, generally considered to be extremist or false, under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader for whom members exhibit fixed, even religious, veneration."

[Futureshock]

ULF's whole existence is to inform us how much more enlightened he is and how much we are sheep.

All I know is they should be sparring no expense getting these vaccines made and sparing no expense admistering them. I'm talking round the clock vaccinations as much as possible. Right they are limited by the supply but there should change in time.

His troll attempts started falling on deaf ears so he drug them here. So sad. Kind of pitiful.

Goodbye

[Futureshock]

Sounds like you have an issue with his reaction and are now lumping those who are concerned about the pandemic into a "cult." It's difficult to get past that. The healthcare system is getting overwhelmed and the long term effects of the virus on those who survive are not good. That is enough for me to take precautions and hope that others will do the same so I and my loved ones can avoid infection. Meanwhile, I have loved ones who have other health issues but are refusing to seek medical help because they fear catching the virus. I fear that by the time they actually HAVE TO seek help, they may be turned away because resources will be consumed by virus patients. I have a hard time relating any of that to a cult.

I agree you're not a Trumper but it's odd how you haven't called out THAT particular cult (that I've seen) when that one really has all the makings of one. "A religion or sect, generally considered to be extremist or false, under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader for whom members exhibit fixed, even religious, veneration."

My POINT was that he kept labeling others but doesn't want the label himself. He also gets UNLY butt hurt on anything coming from one side. By default...

[froot loops]

It's important to note that Michigan is doing OK overall with the hospital systems comparitively speaking. It was bad in the early days of the pandemic and it hasn't gotten back to that. But because of that, the state of Michigan is getting raided for nurses by travel nurse agencies to go to hotspots.

[unknown lions fan]

More personal and ad hominem attacks. huh, couldn't have foreseen that... Have I made any typos you guys can attack? lol

Except for Deb, of course.

I understand all of your concerns, and do not discount them. I do challenge the statement about the healthcare system being overwhelmed. My wife works in a hospital. She was laid off for six or eight weeks when this all started because she's a Physical Therapist. People have yard signs thanking healthcare workers. Thanks for sacrificing two months pay, Jen, while your hospital sat empty.

There's one effect of the use of force in approaching the problem. One big sweeping scorched-earth policy of authoritarians to SHUT EVERYTHING DOWN. The hospital in our region wasn't allowed to mitigate the problem itself, in a manner appropriate to the region. BAM. One-size-fits-all. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people in our region miss their follow-up cancer screenings, or suffer pain or even die because their scheduled surgery was deemed "unnecessary" by Queen Whitmer and her One Best Solution. Again, there's a thousand more examples of suffering imposed by violence. I've only named a few.

There were hospitals in Houston, I believe, where the CEOs had to come out and say look, we're OK! Please, let us handle this! We have all the capacity we need, you're killing us by shutting everything down! I'm sure there are a lot more examples of this I haven't seen (and of course, how many would have been afraid to say it in this environment?)

The fear that you mention, that fear people are harboring that prevents them from seeking medical attention they need - I would argue that there is a cult of fear that has gripped them - you may disagree. Understood. There we are.

[unknown lions fan]

I'm already sorry I mentioned my wife, and even gave her name. Inb4 any of you attacks my marriage, as it seems nothing is out of bounds.

[-Deborah-]

I agree that Michigan's healthcare system isn't overwhelmed right now. Have you seen what's happening in California? I support ensuring that doesn't happen here.

Fearing something that might kill or severely impact your health to me is not a cult of fear but a perfectly normal reaction.