Coronavirus Safety Protocol - please read and discuss

[TheLondonLion]

Almost everyone will get COVID in their life. In the UK only 15% of the population haven’t been infected yet and of new infections, 55% are from this group. I don’t know how they know who has had it in regards to asymptomatic infections, but that’s what is being reported.

I had Omicron (after two jabs) and it wasn’t even as bad as a normal cough for me. A tickly throat for 24-36 hours and it was gone. Weak sauce, but obviously it affects everyone differently.

[wcfwtf]

All that really matters Deb should be, I have a battery that needs to be charged.
If I do this at work who supplies the energy to the building.
Can I sleep knowing I am helping the environment.

Now since 70% of a cars pollution happens at production then it would be better to buy a 5 year old Prius then a brand new Tesla.
But we know that the wealthy do not want to buy a average car, they want the Look at me Tesla.
Starbucks knows the formula of creating a brand to charge a great amount for a product they can find at a much cheaper price.
Climate change or destruction isn’t going to stop by politicians empty promises.
Human behavior cannot be changed.

[-Deborah-]

Geezer: I posted an article that summarizes a lot of data from non-lobby sources. Is there something specific you feel is incorrect?

It is definitely something that has a long way to go but does that mean we should never start on that journey?

Related to the COVID vaccine - I'm not a fan of mandates for this vaccine but I do feel the vaccine has been very effective in lessening symptoms and deaths so I'm glad it's available.

[chemiclord]

A vaccine mandate would have "worked" in that early period before the recent mutations. At this point, nah. It's useful now to dampen those who get sick, and will still save lives, but yeah... at this point, it's time to accept it will be with us forever.

Like usual, we can thank anti-science idiots for this problem.

[Da Geezer]

Whenever you have virulent airborne viruses, it is always going to be a tough challenge to stamp it out, especially one that has the sort of asymptomatic carriers like SARS-COV2 had, and especially so when a country's leadership convinces roughly half of a population that it's not serious. In that respect, we were lucky that Covid wasn't that particularly deadly.

The rest of your political axe to grind is just nonsense.

Heh. That is no response, or at least that response does not in any way address the questions I raised.

I said in my post:

Deb, posting an article from a lobbying firm dedicated to the adoption of EVs is mere propaganda. The coal industry could manipulate data to prove that coal power is less harmful to the planet than solar or wind. Neither is reality.

What is powerful is that China (and to a lesser extent India) is putting in massive numbers of coal-fired generation facilities. If you believe in the "rationale" for the massively overpriced EVs, then what are you doing about China and India? All this green energy nonsense just guarantees that our political enemies have better and more reliable power grids than we do.

Why not begin to build new nuclear plants at a cost of pennies on the dollar versus the price of "resetting" the entire economy?

Why not boycott China until they behave more responsively toward global warming.?

Why has the US, alone among the Paris Climate Treaty signatories, met the goals set out in that accord? Well, it is about fracking natural gas, isn't it? Europe has massive quantities of natural gas reserves readily available, but the Green movement in the EU has stopped fracking. Does it bother you at all that the Greens, both here and there, are funded primarily by China and Russia?

I've taken the liberty of highlighting the questions I asked that you seek to avoid.

Why not build nuclear plants?

Why not try to force China and India to stop their coal-fired plant construction?

Why not frack in Europe? Do you think that source of natural gas MIGHT ameliorate the effects of the cut-off of Russian oil?

We ask China to manufacture the batteries for EVs, solar panels, and even windmills. Did you ever ask why it is illegal to manufacture the raw materials used in batteries in the US. It is that environmentally noxious.

[Da Geezer]

Geezer: I posted an article that summarizes a lot of data from non-lobby sources. Is there something specific you feel is incorrect?

It is definitely something that has a long way to go but does that mean we should never start on that journey?

Related to the COVID vaccine - I'm not a fan of mandates for this vaccine but I do feel the vaccine has been very effective in lessening symptoms and deaths so I'm glad it's available.

I didn't read the whole article. I just looked up EVAdoption and found it is a lobbying group for EVs. Probably funded by Russia. Heh

But seriously, it would be fine with me to "start the journey" if it were being done using the free market. the federal government has paid billions of dollars to purchasers of EVs to induce them to buy a product that would only be a niche product without government support. That includes the government subsidy for the production plants. I can picture high-end car makers producing EVs (like Teslas) that are super high-performance autos. That is something that makes EVs unique. If the market wanted cars that go from 0-60 in 4 seconds or whatever, there might have been a market.

If we can solve the battery issue with EVs, there could be a mass market for them. They need a battery that charges more quickly and offers more range per charge. That may be in the future, but not now.

The fundamental pitch for EVs now is that they help with climate change, although your article didn't have much evidence of that. When Debby Stupidcow said she "drove right by" gas stations going to DC from Michigan, she clearly didn't realize that her electric charge mainly came from fossil fuels. Nothing in your article addressed the cost of that energy because the Greenies just assume electricity is free (since the future is all about solar and wind).

The next subsidy will be a massive federal program to put charging stations everywhere. I figure the EV makers should pay for the charging stations, but I doubt that is going to happen. Let the EV makers compete with the combustion car makers and see what happens. Froot may well be right and we will gradually move toward more EVs. But that will not happen while gasoline is relatively cheap. Thus the Wokesters and Greenies insist on higher gasoline prices. You are now paying at the pump for the EV future you hope happens.

But thanks for replying rationally.

Why shouldn't the US build Nuclear plants that are proven to be cost-effective and non-polluting? Why take out the hydroelectric dams? Both are proven and produce cheap energy. Other than the massive donations to the Dem party by the Green energy makers, what is the possible rationale for not using pollution-free alternatives to oil and gas?

[chemiclord]

Heh. That is no response, or at least that response does not in any way address the questions I raised.

I said in my post:

Deb, posting an article from a lobbying firm dedicated to the adoption of EVs is mere propaganda. The coal industry could manipulate data to prove that coal power is less harmful to the planet than solar or wind. Neither is reality.

What is powerful is that China (and to a lesser extent India) is putting in massive numbers of coal-fired generation facilities. If you believe in the "rationale" for the massively overpriced EVs, then what are you doing about China and India? All this green energy nonsense just guarantees that our political enemies have better and more reliable power grids than we do.

Why not begin to build new nuclear plants at a cost of pennies on the dollar versus the price of "resetting" the entire economy?

Why not boycott China until they behave more responsively toward global warming.?

Why has the US, alone among the Paris Climate Treaty signatories, met the goals set out in that accord? Well, it is about fracking natural gas, isn't it? Europe has massive quantities of natural gas reserves readily available, but the Green movement in the EU has stopped fracking. Does it bother you at all that the Greens, both here and there, are funded primarily by China and Russia?

I've taken the liberty of highlighting the questions I asked that you seek to avoid.

Why not build nuclear plants?

Why not try to force China and India to stop their coal-fired plant construction?

Why not frack in Europe? Do you think that source of natural gas MIGHT ameliorate the effects of the cut-off of Russian oil?

We ask China to manufacture the batteries for EVs, solar panels, and even windmills. Did you ever ask why it is illegal to manufacture the raw materials used in batteries in the US. It is that environmentally noxious.

As I said, nonsense. Everything you said there is either misinformation or an outright lie. Which is why I didn't address it, and won't address it now. You live in a shit alternate reality with your own made-up facts and refuse to accept anything that doesn't collaborate your shitty worldview (which is why you have to make everything up, or more accurately listen to some reactionary pundit on AM radio make them up for you, because no actual verifiable facts support your imaginary bullshit).

[CGVT]

Yep. It's just like his post of all the "great" stuff that Trump did. Most of it is bullshit, riding on the coat tails of the last administartion, or blatently false. What isn't is cosidered by the majority of the population, other than right wing religious zealots to be bad for the country.

That shit has been refuted so many times that it is not worth the time to debunk it. Again

Of course, that doesn't stop the delusional fossil (ha!) from posting it as gospel

He's not worth the effort.

[Da Geezer]

As I said, nonsense. Everything you said there is either misinformation or an outright lie. Which is why I didn't address it, and won't address it now. You live in a shit alternate reality with your own made-up facts and refuse to accept anything that doesn't collaborate your shitty worldview (which is why you have to make everything up, or more accurately listen to some reactionary pundit on AM radio make them up for you, because no actual verifiable facts support your imaginary bullshit).

You didn't address it because you are not smart enough to discern fact from fiction.

What is untrue about China and India building coal plants by the dozen. China just announced a $ 475 Billion series of coal plant construction on Thursday. Why does not their pollution count? Or do you deny that they are indeed polluting?

You have no rationale for not building nuclear plants to provide the electricity we need. The ONLY reason to be against that is that the green energy "construction companies" are 100% controlled by Dem donors. (Remember Solyndra) Same deal with the awful government school system. The teachers' unions donate massive amounts of time and money to the Dems. So you support them.

What about Russia and China funding the green movement in the US and in Europe. Do you deny that?

Or fracking in Europe, I'm pretty sure no one on this board had any idea that Europe has enormous reserves of Nat Gas that are readily available except for their reluctance to frack. Instead, we are sending billions to Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia and China, does it seem less dangerous to have the EU use their own gas rather than relying on Russia? Do you think that is made up?

But you fools here have never come up with any Biden administration initiative that has helped the country. Nothing.

So I guess you should keep talking about pronouns and what a woman is and who should use which bathroom, and about drag queen story hour and all the other silliness you guys believe.

Except for Deb, you guys are bought and paid for. Cash your checks and spout the party line to keep the gravy train going

[chemiclord]

You didn't address it because you are not smart enough to discern fact from fiction.

What is untrue about China and India building coal plants by the dozen. China just announced a $ 475 Billion series of coal plant construction on Thursday. Why does not their pollution count? Or do you deny that they are indeed polluting?

You have no rationale for not building nuclear plants to provide the electricity we need. The ONLY reason to be against that is that the green energy "construction companies" are 100% controlled by Dem donors. (Remember Solyndra) Same deal with the awful government school system. The teachers' unions donate massive amounts of time and money to the Dems. So you support them.

What about Russia and China funding the green movement in the US and in Europe. Do you deny that?

Or fracking in Europe, I'm pretty sure no one on this board had any idea that Europe has enormous reserves of Nat Gas that are readily available except for their reluctance to frack. Instead, we are sending billions to Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia and China, does it seem less dangerous to have the EU use their own gas rather than relying on Russia? Do you think that is made up?

But you fools here have never come up with any Biden administration initiative that has helped the country. Nothing.

So I guess you should keep talking about pronouns and what a woman is and who should use which bathroom, and about drag queen story hour and all the other silliness you guys believe.

Except for Deb, you guys are bought and paid for. Cash your checks and spout the party line to keep the gravy train going

No, because we're tired of correcting you only for you to ignore it and continue on with your reactionary bullshit. You want to hear it? Read up, you fossil. I don't expect it to sink in anymore the fourth time, though. You're impervious to any "fact" you can't fabricate.

Now shut up and fuck off.

[chemiclord]

But ya know what? Fine. I'll debunk your bullshit one more time.

You know what you ignore? That Russia funds your party. You are the Russian asset.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/c...gop-campaigns/

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...ump-rnc-513219

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/14/russ...mp-donors.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ty-trump-putin

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/07/b...utin-wing.html

https://newrepublic.com/article/1657...nship-manafort

I can keep going, if you'd like. Bah, who am I kidding? You're not going to read more than maybe the first paragraph of the first link before you reject all of it because it doesn't suit the fanfiction you call reality.

As for the Green Party here in the US? Classic misinformation, because you (perhaps willfully) leave out the part that the US Green Party has generally not been permitted association with Global Greens (which is the worldwide association) because of its Russian investment (the German Green Party is in a similar reluctant association state for that same reason). As I understand they are currently in coalition, but we'll see how long that lasts (I suspect Russian money with the war in Ukraine will eventually cause another breakup).

Russia especially loves to do this sort of shit; toss money to a bunch of sides in the hopes that it will distract people like you and help you ignore that one side is getting the bulk of the money, influence, and investment. It's literally a part of their misinformation playbook.

As for the natural gas state in Europe? We'll see. The European Union is making a bunch of mouth noises about cutting off Russian gas (They've dropped it about 60% as of right now), but it's easy to say that in the summer. We'll see just how committed they remain to it once winter sets in, and if they're going to be willing to pump into their reserves. I personally am not hopeful. People are notoriously unwilling to sacrifice anything for any reason, no matter how noble.

https://blogs.imf.org/2022/07/19/how...pes-economies/

As for the Biden Administration, it's suffering from the same problem that the Trump Administration has; a gridlocked legislature that allows the minority party to freeze pretty much everything legislatively and narrows everything down to one or two bites of the apple. For the Trump Administration, it was tax cuts (that skyrocketed the debt they are supposedly so concerned about, but put a lot of money into the hands of the wealthy who promptly hoarded it rather than let it "trickle down"). For the Biden Administration, it was an infrastructure bill (the impacts of which probably won't start being felt for another couple years).

I know which one I think is better. You clearly think differently. Outside of that, it's been executive orders, which are temporary by nature and get negated the instant the opposition party takes control of the White House.

[Da Geezer]

As for the Green Party here in the US? Classic misinformation, because you (perhaps willfully) leave out the part that the US Green Party has generally not been permitted association with Global Greens (which is the worldwide association) because of its Russian investment (the German Green Party is in a similar reluctant association state for that same reason). As I understand they are currently in coalition, but we'll see how long that lasts (I suspect Russian money with the war in Ukraine will eventually cause another breakup).

When I speak of the Greens, I don't mean the Green Party as a political entity, either in Europe or in the US. The Green Party in the US is a fully owned subsidiary of the Democrat party. After Trump's election in 2016, there were articles written saying what would have happened had not the babe running on the Green Party line received so many votes. The Dems said don't rum in 2020 and the Green Party obediently did not run a candidate. I wish the Rs could do the same and not have the Libertarians run, but the Libs are an independent party.

[Da Geezer]

But ya know what? Fine. I'll debunk your bullshit one more time.

You know what you ignore? That Russia funds your party. You are the Russian asset.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/c...gop-campaigns/

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...ump-rnc-513219

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/14/russ...mp-donors.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ty-trump-putin

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/07/b...utin-wing.html

https://newrepublic.com/article/1657...nship-manafort

I can keep going, if you'd like. Bah, who am I kidding? You're not going to read more than maybe the first paragraph of the first link before you reject all of it because it doesn't suit the fanfiction you call reality.

I read them all, at least those that were not paywalled. Seems to me strange that you subscribe to the Dallas Morning News, but whatever. NONE of the articles address the questions I raise. You just googled for "Russian money to Trump or the GOP" or some such, and cut and pasted the result. BTW there was an investigation into this Russian business and it was found that Hillary was the source of all the Russian collusion hoaxes. These articles treat Russia as if the hoax were real. In reality, Putin would never have wanted Trump elected because Trump promised to unleash the US O+G industry and become self-sufficient. That would and did cut dramatically into Putin's graft and corruption using Russian O+G for his and his colleagues' personal benefit. Trump's election drove down the price of oil on the night he was elected and thereafter.

Why would Putin want a US President who cost him billions?

[Da Geezer]

As for the natural gas state in Europe? We'll see. The European Union is making a bunch of mouth noises about cutting off Russian gas (They've dropped it about 60% as of right now), but it's easy to say that in the summer. We'll see just how committed they remain to it once winter sets in, and if they're going to be willing to pump into their reserves. I personally am not hopeful. People are notoriously unwilling to sacrifice anything for any reason, no matter how noble.

https://blogs.imf.org/2022/07/19/how...pes-economies/

necessary to

Yes, but you don't deal with the issue I raised. Europe is in the mess you describe because they won't go and get the natural gas under their feet. When I talk of the Greens, I don't mean a political party but rather a mindset that you and the other Dems here have that we should raise the price of gasoline so as to make it desirable to move to EVs and wind and solar generation. This is what you stand for, you and Future and CG and the rest of the chorus of progs. Own it.

I suggest it is smarter to help the EU become an energy producer for their own consumption. The fact that they won't do so is another example of how unthinking and propagandized your view of the world is.

[Da Geezer]

I [/I]think is better. You clearly think differently. Outside of that, it's been executive orders, which are temporary by nature and get negated the instant the opposition party takes control of the White House.

Trump cut taxes and built the wall, as he promised. He unleashed the O+G industry. Mostly, he stripped away the regulatory burden on the producers in society. Now I could cut and paste all the accomplishments I listed above, but they were massive. The tax cut in particular (targeted toward lower-income households with a $ 12,000 child credit) let the producers in the country keep more of their money and pay less to the government. Now, I understand that you welfare recipients don't take part in the real economy, but those of us who PAY taxes really like that.

And, I think you just said BBB was an "accomplishment" of the Biden administration. Of course, you do. 85% of the BBB funds go to "human infrastructure", that is, to welfare. That doesn't cause any increase in actual infrastructure. It does cause excess spending from the non-productive people which is why we have 9.1% inflation. Some accomplishment.