Wolverines v Bama Post Game Thread - Page 7

UMStan White · April 23rd, 2012, 07:55 AM

Amen Jon. A well-reasoned response without any ranting.

UMStan White · April 23rd, 2012, 08:16 AM

""We benchmarked our ticket prices against our peers and other comparable football venues and we have concluded that these prices will bring us closer to current industry standards," Michigan athletic director David Brandon said.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz1srwRBsF3

Brandon's comment on ticket prices that are now the most expensive in Michigan history--next year's Michigan State game is $95.00 a ticket. Any doubt that Jon's asssement of this guy is true?

Hannibal · April 23rd, 2012, 08:52 AM

If you look at how much you would get on Stubhub for Air Force, Illinois, and Central Michigan, the MSU game is probably costing you a hell of a lot more if you are buying season tickets. The college football season ticket package is increasingly becoming something that you buy just to get one or two hard to get tickets. If you skipped the MSU game this year, I'll bet that you could see every other game by buying a ticket right outside the stadium and pay less than $100 total.

iam416 · April 23rd, 2012, 09:15 AM

At OSU, it's still cheaper to buy as you go, scalped or otherwise. The $1500 donation is what kills you. And that probably gets you halfway shitty seats at best. I'd rather buy off eBay and get really good seats for my $200-400.

OSU also doesn't adjust price based on "premium" games or seat location. $70 for 15 rows up on the 50 against Michigan. $70 for Row 42 in C-Deck against UCF. Unfortunately, I don't think they're even close to the edge of what fans will tolerate.

Hannibal · April 23rd, 2012, 09:22 AM

Excellent post on the front page of mgoblog this morning about this very subject.

http://mgoblog.com/content/there-no-jerryworld-pot-gold

lineygoblue · April 23rd, 2012, 09:34 AM

Jon - you described exactly what happened to the old Bell System/AT&T. There was a time when our communications services were the toast of the world. Nobody could match our quality or customer service. Then, after deregulation, as our old guard started to retire, they brought in the "new guns" who had the telemarketer mentality, and the focus shifted from providing excellent products and customer services, to nothing but the customer's wallet. Everything we did in every single day, focused on how we could get another dollar out of the customer's wallet. Our customers practically begged us to give them the excellence we used to provide, but those words fell on deaf ears. We became just another telecommunications company.

AT&T used to be one of the largest employers in the world. Today, there are literally thousands of employers who employ more people. AT&T isn't who people think of first anymore, to go to for communications services. They think of Sprint, Verizon or some other outfit.

I'm sad to see Michigan athletics headed down the same road. An experience at Michigan Stadium used to be special. Now, its just another tourist trap.

Jeff Buchanan · April 24th, 2012, 07:17 AM

I can't disagree with the consensus view here of Dave Brandon and the direction he appears to be taking M football. There's a fine line between running an organization well, maintaining brand recognition in a positive way, keeping customers loyal and destroying it at the alter of the almighty dollar.

What's worse is that the incline to being the best is moderate and easy to negotiate, while reaching the tipping point and going the other way heads you down a steep slope that is almost impossible to recover from. I don't think Brandon has gotten to the tipping point and his ability to avoid that or not is going to become his legacy.

James Dudderstadt, former UM President who opposed stadium expansion and almost achieved his goal of preventing the build, spoke of the loss of the egalitarian nature of CFB that the stadium renovation project represented. What's happening in CFB today is that the elites are replacing the every man in the stands ..... and sadly, there are plenty of elites who will pay the kinds of astronomical prices that we are seeing for a day in the stadium. Its happened in pro-sports. Its happening here.

The best CEOs are the ones who can take organizations to that tipping point and prevent the organization from dropping over the precipice. We don't yet know if DB is that kind of CEO or not. All we've got now is a lot of bitching and moaning ...... but the stands are still full and as talent has pointed out, in the case of osu, the break point of fan tolerance for ticket prices has not yet been reached. You can bet DB and his ilk are going to continue to try to find that point, not go past it and there is nothing we can do about it.

iam416 · April 24th, 2012, 07:23 AM

Re tipping point, I judge it by gameday secondary market. And it still costs more than face to get in for most games. The broiling early season tomato can game--sure, $25-50 is the order of the day. A conference game?--you're lucky to find face. A big game? -- 3 or 4 times face at best. So, the ticket package is still a value by that remarkably rough measure.

hodgkal · April 24th, 2012, 09:58 AM

Outstanding post, Jon. What you described seems to be happening in many other arenas. I can speak of a similar phenomenon in today’s medical practice. The pie is getting smaller and the previous egalitarian mindset of our profession is morphing into a “get all that you can get” and damn all that lofty idealism that doctors once held when they chose this profession.

I know someone in our local radiology group who describes how their doctors now seem to care only about the bottom line and the emphasis on quality is subtly eroding. Anyone in the group who spends too much time talking with patients or worrying about the quality of proven money-making procedures is considered a threat to group income. And they don’t want anybody messing with their 15 weeks vacation a year!

This example may be an exception in today's medical environment but there seems to be a trend in this direction. The slow erosion of many of the values that built this nation is very disturbing. An over-generalization? I don’t think so. Tough times ahead.

Hannibal · April 24th, 2012, 10:06 AM

It sounds like the street value of OSU tickets is significantly higher than Michigan. A tomator can game at Michigan is probably $10-$15 45 minutes before the game. A game against a mid-major like San Diego State is less than face value.

SeanB · April 24th, 2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hannibal

It sounds like the street value of OSU tickets is significantly higher than Michigan. A tomator can game at Michigan is probably $10-$15 45 minutes before the game. A game against a mid-major like San Diego State is less than face value.

Considering they draw something like 80K to the spring game and we know they have a rabid (in more ways than one) fan base, that doesn't surprise me.

I loathe buckeye fans with an inner fire that cannot be quenched, but I have to give it to them when it comes to team support. Unwavering. M fans typically do not approach that level of fervor, IMO. Sometimes, I'm quite disappointed in the stadium experience in the Big House when it comes to fan activity/loudness/cheering, etc. My brother-in-law, who frequented Georgia football games, was very surprised during his first trip to AA. He couldn't believe how quiet it seemed at times. And it was a conference game vs. Iowa, not a tomato can.

hodgkal · April 24th, 2012, 01:49 PM

When all you have in your life is your football school you get that frenzy of fan support. After all those hillbillies need something they can identify with. It's even worse in the SEC.

I was down in Columbus at the Jack Nicklaus golf tournament a couple of years ago and you could even see it there with all the Buckeye paraphernalia people were sporting. It really is a religion with those folks.

We know we're better. That's why they hate us. Same thing in E. Lansing.

whodean · April 24th, 2012, 02:25 PM

It is the older folks with their nose in the area that reduce M's home field advantage.

SeanB · April 24th, 2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodean

It is the older folks with their nose in the area that reduce M's home field advantage.

Sometimes I wonder why some of them even go to the games.

SeanB · April 24th, 2012, 03:10 PM

Mgoblog is reporting that the Michigan Band will be going to Dallas.

lineygoblue · April 24th, 2012, 03:40 PM

I told you so.

If the truth were known, Brandon did this deliberately, so that the athletic department wouldn't have to pick up the entire tab for sending the band.

This way, the department keeps the bulk of the money from the game, and the band still goes. Have your cake and eat it too.

http://http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120424/SPORTS0201/204240430/Michigan-band-will-opener-against-Alabama?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

UMStan White · April 24th, 2012, 04:54 PM

It,s still a black eye for Brandon. Regardless of why he reversed his decision, he now has the appearance of not only being a "bottom line guy" but also as a spineless bastard that can't back up his decisions and buckles to public pressure. I go back yo my earlier criticism. This is guy that totally ruined a brand name and that has only survived by running an ad campaign that we suck so bad we apologize for selling a shit product.

Rob F · April 24th, 2012, 05:00 PM

whodean:

Quote:

It is the older folks with their nose in the area that reduce M's home field advantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanB

Sometimes I wonder why some of them even go to the games.

Your dad usually has his nose in the area when he comes up to Ann Arbor for games, doesn't he, Sean? It shocked me to find out that you wonder, then, why he even goes to the game ...

hack · April 25th, 2012, 06:39 AM

I too like Jon's rant, save for this: I can't believe his corporate masters (Mary Sue, the Board of Regents or whoever) have given him marching orders that command him to squeeze every last penny available.

I'd have a hard time believing they didn't. At that level, employment by a university is primarily about brand protection and getting money.

The Oracle · July 12th, 2012, 05:20 PM

I started to re read this thread to find out the info myself, but got nothing but boring Saban vs Hoke, so...

Is there going to be a BORG taligate here? Me and a friend are making the trek from Cali. So far, we were only to get our hands on SRO seats and are looking to upgrade, but at least we have a ticket in the building. We are however looking for a good tailgate and I've seen stories here of good ones. Any plans thus far? Who's going to be in attendance?

April 23rd, 2012, 09:34 AM	#126
lineygoblue Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Owosso, MI Posts: 5,347	Jon - you described exactly what happened to the old Bell System/AT&T. There was a time when our communications services were the toast of the world. Nobody could match our quality or customer service. Then, after deregulation, as our old guard started to retire, they brought in the "new guns" who had the telemarketer mentality, and the focus shifted from providing excellent products and customer services, to nothing but the customer's wallet. Everything we did in every single day, focused on how we could get another dollar out of the customer's wallet. Our customers practically begged us to give them the excellence we used to provide, but those words fell on deaf ears. We became just another telecommunications company. AT&T used to be one of the largest employers in the world. Today, there are literally thousands of employers who employ more people. AT&T isn't who people think of first anymore, to go to for communications services. They think of Sprint, Verizon or some other outfit. I'm sad to see Michigan athletics headed down the same road. An experience at Michigan Stadium used to be special. Now, its just another tourist trap. __________________ "Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden

April 24th, 2012, 02:25 PM	#133
whodean Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SEC Country (don't hold it against me) Posts: 3,584	It is the older folks with their nose in the area that reduce M's home field advantage. __________________ Atlanta, GA

April 24th, 2012, 03:40 PM	#136
lineygoblue Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Owosso, MI Posts: 5,347	I told you so. If the truth were known, Brandon did this deliberately, so that the athletic department wouldn't have to pick up the entire tab for sending the band. This way, the department keeps the bulk of the money from the game, and the band still goes. Have your cake and eat it too. http://http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120424/SPORTS0201/204240430/Michigan-band-will-opener-against-Alabama?odyssey=tab\|topnews\|text\|FRONTPAGE __________________ "Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there." - John Wooden

April 23rd, 2012, 07:55 AM	#121
UMStan White Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 892	Amen Jon. A well-reasoned response without any ranting.

April 23rd, 2012, 08:16 AM	#122
UMStan White Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 892	""We benchmarked our ticket prices against our peers and other comparable football venues and we have concluded that these prices will bring us closer to current industry standards," Michigan athletic director David Brandon said. From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz1srwRBsF3 Brandon's comment on ticket prices that are now the most expensive in Michigan history--next year's Michigan State game is $95.00 a ticket. Any doubt that Jon's asssement of this guy is true?

April 23rd, 2012, 08:52 AM	#123
Hannibal Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,644	If you look at how much you would get on Stubhub for Air Force, Illinois, and Central Michigan, the MSU game is probably costing you a hell of a lot more if you are buying season tickets. The college football season ticket package is increasingly becoming something that you buy just to get one or two hard to get tickets. If you skipped the MSU game this year, I'll bet that you could see every other game by buying a ticket right outside the stadium and pay less than $100 total.

April 23rd, 2012, 09:15 AM	#124
iam416 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 3,806	At OSU, it's still cheaper to buy as you go, scalped or otherwise. The $1500 donation is what kills you. And that probably gets you halfway shitty seats at best. I'd rather buy off eBay and get really good seats for my $200-400. OSU also doesn't adjust price based on "premium" games or seat location. $70 for 15 rows up on the 50 against Michigan. $70 for Row 42 in C-Deck against UCF. Unfortunately, I don't think they're even close to the edge of what fans will tolerate.

April 23rd, 2012, 09:22 AM	#125
Hannibal Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,644	Excellent post on the front page of mgoblog this morning about this very subject. http://mgoblog.com/content/there-no-jerryworld-pot-gold

April 24th, 2012, 07:17 AM	#127
Jeff Buchanan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 2,531	I can't disagree with the consensus view here of Dave Brandon and the direction he appears to be taking M football. There's a fine line between running an organization well, maintaining brand recognition in a positive way, keeping customers loyal and destroying it at the alter of the almighty dollar. What's worse is that the incline to being the best is moderate and easy to negotiate, while reaching the tipping point and going the other way heads you down a steep slope that is almost impossible to recover from. I don't think Brandon has gotten to the tipping point and his ability to avoid that or not is going to become his legacy. James Dudderstadt, former UM President who opposed stadium expansion and almost achieved his goal of preventing the build, spoke of the loss of the egalitarian nature of CFB that the stadium renovation project represented. What's happening in CFB today is that the elites are replacing the every man in the stands ..... and sadly, there are plenty of elites who will pay the kinds of astronomical prices that we are seeing for a day in the stadium. Its happened in pro-sports. Its happening here. The best CEOs are the ones who can take organizations to that tipping point and prevent the organization from dropping over the precipice. We don't yet know if DB is that kind of CEO or not. All we've got now is a lot of bitching and moaning ...... but the stands are still full and as talent has pointed out, in the case of osu, the break point of fan tolerance for ticket prices has not yet been reached. You can bet DB and his ilk are going to continue to try to find that point, not go past it and there is nothing we can do about it.

April 24th, 2012, 07:23 AM	#128
iam416 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 3,806	Re tipping point, I judge it by gameday secondary market. And it still costs more than face to get in for most games. The broiling early season tomato can game--sure, $25-50 is the order of the day. A conference game?--you're lucky to find face. A big game? -- 3 or 4 times face at best. So, the ticket package is still a value by that remarkably rough measure.

April 24th, 2012, 09:58 AM	#129
hodgkal Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 269	Outstanding post, Jon. What you described seems to be happening in many other arenas. I can speak of a similar phenomenon in today’s medical practice. The pie is getting smaller and the previous egalitarian mindset of our profession is morphing into a “get all that you can get” and damn all that lofty idealism that doctors once held when they chose this profession. I know someone in our local radiology group who describes how their doctors now seem to care only about the bottom line and the emphasis on quality is subtly eroding. Anyone in the group who spends too much time talking with patients or worrying about the quality of proven money-making procedures is considered a threat to group income. And they don’t want anybody messing with their 15 weeks vacation a year! This example may be an exception in today's medical environment but there seems to be a trend in this direction. The slow erosion of many of the values that built this nation is very disturbing. An over-generalization? I don’t think so. Tough times ahead.

April 24th, 2012, 10:06 AM	#130
Hannibal Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,644	It sounds like the street value of OSU tickets is significantly higher than Michigan. A tomator can game at Michigan is probably $10-$15 45 minutes before the game. A game against a mid-major like San Diego State is less than face value.

April 24th, 2012, 01:49 PM	#132
hodgkal Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 269	When all you have in your life is your football school you get that frenzy of fan support. After all those hillbillies need something they can identify with. It's even worse in the SEC. I was down in Columbus at the Jack Nicklaus golf tournament a couple of years ago and you could even see it there with all the Buckeye paraphernalia people were sporting. It really is a religion with those folks. We know we're better. That's why they hate us. Same thing in E. Lansing.

April 24th, 2012, 03:10 PM	#135
SeanB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Saline, MI Posts: 784	Mgoblog is reporting that the Michigan Band will be going to Dallas.

April 24th, 2012, 04:54 PM	#137
UMStan White Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 892	It,s still a black eye for Brandon. Regardless of why he reversed his decision, he now has the appearance of not only being a "bottom line guy" but also as a spineless bastard that can't back up his decisions and buckles to public pressure. I go back yo my earlier criticism. This is guy that totally ruined a brand name and that has only survived by running an ad campaign that we suck so bad we apologize for selling a shit product.

April 25th, 2012, 06:39 AM	#139
hack Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,582	I too like Jon's rant, save for this: I can't believe his corporate masters (Mary Sue, the Board of Regents or whoever) have given him marching orders that command him to squeeze every last penny available. I'd have a hard time believing they didn't. At that level, employment by a university is primarily about brand protection and getting money.

July 12th, 2012, 05:20 PM	#140
The Oracle Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 1,796	I started to re read this thread to find out the info myself, but got nothing but boring Saban vs Hoke, so... Is there going to be a BORG taligate here? Me and a friend are making the trek from Cali. So far, we were only to get our hands on SRO seats and are looking to upgrade, but at least we have a ticket in the building. We are however looking for a good tailgate and I've seen stories here of good ones. Any plans thus far? Who's going to be in attendance?