Off Topic: "Three And Out" by John U Bacon

[SeattleLionsFan]

Brandon was hoping for "Sponsored" ATMs. You won't even notice the logos on 'em.

[Rob F]

Originally Posted by Tom W

Rumor has it that Brandon had detailed knowledge of Miles' "indiscretions" when he was an assistant and went out of his way (as a Regent) to prevent his hiring after the 2007 season. As a result, any discussion after last season was little more than a courtesy

From what I know---and I don't know it first-hand, but you might call it "2nd- and 3rd-hand knowledge"---Miles had a history of "indiscretions" going all the way back to when he played under Bo. I guess the best way to put it might be this: Miles is, at best, a knucklehead, and at worst, a philandering cheat.

A friend of mine that I've known since college days (whose identity I prefer not to reveal), and who also happens to hold both an undergraduate and Law Degree from U of M, told me many years ago a few stories about Les Miles. Wondering about my friend's credibility? In my estimation, it's beyond reproach---I've know him for about 35 years, and he's not one to exaggerate or make things up. Not only that, he also was a walk-on athlete at U of M in a sport other than Football, a sport that Miles was also good at. Being that he was 2 years behind Miles in class standing while at U of M, he and Miles crossed paths often enough so that my friend/source had some first-hand knowledge of Miles while both were student-athletes at U of M.

As my "source" is a lawyer in the Metro Detroit area who has stayed well-connected to people and things within U of M over the years, he also stayed pretty knowledgeable about things behind the scenes at U of M in the decades since he graduated from Michigan's Law School.


To put things more in context, I'd guesstimate that our first conversation regarding Les Miles probably occurred about 7 or 8 years ago, around the time that speculation was just starting about the line of succession to the Michigan HC job. While tailgating with my "source" and several others, at some point talk turned to speculation that Lloyd would be resigning within the next couple of years, and several names were tossed back and forth, over beers, as possible successors to Carr.

Anyway, as soon as Miles' name was mentioned, my "source" immediately shot it down and said, in a nutshell, there were too many people within the U of M who would never let it happen. Although he didn't initially share a lot of details with the whole bunch of us, he did say enough that it caught my attention that Miles had some pretty big "skeletons" in his closet.

As I recall, I had a chance to ask more details as we walked back to our cars after the game that afternoon, and he shared a few more details about how much a "screw-up" Miles was while a student, how much trouble he was constantly in, both with Bo and as a student, and how it was a real surprise to him and others that Bo brought him back years later as an assistant. But he also mentioned that there was something else in Miles' track record that would be a much bigger reason for his never returning to U of M as a coach---and tho he wouldn't tell me specifics at the time, he did say that some on the then-current staff had more than enough good reason to not want Miles anywhere near the program ever again, for reasons of trust that must be a "given" within any organization. That's all he would say at the time, so out of respect, I left it at that.

The subject of Miles again came up in 2007, at which time my friend again scoffed at the idea that Michigan would seriously consider bringing him back. I didn't pursue any more info from him then, but the subject of Miles did come up again a couple years later, prior to the 2010 season, and this is when he dropped a real "bombshell", finally giving me details of what he had knowledge of for many years, that Miles had cheated with a wife of another coach----and once he gave me the name, a lot of things I knew/had heard about about previously finally made sense.

So today, I'm also reading that the Bacon book states Dave Brandon was also among the many who didn't want Miles hired, so I decided to google "Les Miles" and see what would pop up. One of the first things I read was from Wikipedia, and, not surprisingly, their info on Miles seems to hint at, if not verify and confirm, what I had learned over the preceding years from my friend. Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia page:

Miles earned all-state honors in football at Elyria High School in Ohio as well as letters in baseball and wrestling. He attended the University of Michigan where he was a two-year letterman under Coach Bo Schembechler from 1974 to 75. In 1980, Miles returned to Michigan as an assistant coach to Schembechler. He left Michigan in 1982 to coach at the University of Colorado where fellow Michigan assistant Bill McCartney had just been named head coach. Coincidentally, one of his fellow assistants on the Colorado staff was another future LSU head coach, Gerry DiNardo, who coached at LSU from 1995–99.
He returned to Michigan in 1987 where he helped lead the team to eight consecutive winning seasons and bowl appearances, including four Rose Bowl appearances. After Gary Moeller's resignation, Miles left Michigan again to join former Colorado assistant Bob Simmons staff at Oklahoma State as offensive coordinator. A rift with the University of Michigan occurred near the time of Moeller's resignation, forcing him to seek employment elsewhere.

I'll leave it at that, at least for now. I'll probably be seeing my friend and "source" at least a couple more times at tailgates this fall, I want to ask him (before posting any more details) exactly how much of what he told me over the years is common knowledge regarding Miles.

Let's put it this way, though---what I'm reading several posts upthread about Lloyd's role in blocking the hiring of Miles makes a ton of sense! It fits to a 'T' what is generally perceived about Carr, that he is extremely loyal to those that he cares about ; that he has their backs all the way.

[Tom W]

Wow, Rob- That's pretty damning of an indictment. And, if I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd say there was a good chance that the leaks to Herbstreit were an "inside job".

[*JD*]

Well, that has been the rumor I've heard since '07 so I am not that surprised that it might be true.

[lineygoblue]

Seeing that confirms what I thought about Brandon's boondoggle visit to Miles. It was a dog-and-pony show to appease someone or some faction.

[hack]

It clearly was, yeah. I think he said he went to ``consult'' Miles. What a bad liar!

[Rocky Bleier]

Originally Posted by Hannibal

"Best for the program" means that you either support the new coach or keep your mouth shut. At least until the guy has had a year or two to show what he can do.

But in this case keeping your mouth shut may have meant not standing up for a guy when others were working to sabotage him.

[whodean]

Originally Posted by hack

It clearly was, yeah. I think he said he went to ``consult'' Miles. What a bad liar!

I think the point in saying "consult" is that he was making it clear he never did offer Miles the job (thanks goodness)

[lineygoblue]

I get the feeling that MSC may have told Brandon to go do the faux interview with Miles just so some faction(s) could be appeased. I can almost hear her saying it ..

"Go to Baton Rouge .. sit down with that dumba$$, .. tell him we really don't want him, but we have to make it look good ... then get your a$$ back on the plane, come home, and hire Brady Hoke" ....

[hack]

That's how a Michigan Man does it, of course -- you shit on whomever you wish to as long as you can convince yourself later it wasn't your own pettiness at play but the good of the football program.

[Optimus Prime]

If Miles could have been swept away from LSU by Brandon, he'd be here. Why would Dave be hamstrung by Carr and Martin's moronic miscalculations?

[Rob F]

Just a reminder---anyone buying the book----or anything else online---if you do it thru Amazon.com's link on the DetroitLionsForum main page, you are helping Debbie fund this forum.

Here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.ht...&creative=9325

[Jamie H]

As to Rob's rumor, it sure makes Moeller's drunken rampage at his wife in that restaurant make a lot more sense, doesn't it? I never bought the idea that he cracked under the pressure of being head coach. Nothing can drive you to a drunken rampage quicker than a woman screwing you over. Uh, or so I've heard.

[DennisT]

A woman not screwing you can do it too. Or so I've heard.

[Mike]

Part 2 of the Det News' excerpts from "Three and Out".

http://www.detnews.com/article/20111...d-Carr-retired

Three weeks into the search for Lloyd Carr's successor, Michigan still didn't have a coach — or even a lead. On Dec. 10, 2007, Les Miles told athletic director Bill Martin and president Mary Sue Coleman he "would never say no to Michigan," but added that he could not negotiate with them until after his LSU team's national title game in January.
It will likely come as a surprise to most fans that Rich Rodriguez was first contacted by Michigan that evening by none other than Lloyd Carr. Rodriguez recalled that the 10- to 15-minute conversation was "very positive. He was definitely encouraging me to think about it."
The next day, Martin heard the first person to encourage him to think about Rodriguez, and that person was Lloyd Carr. (Carr did not respond to requests for an interview for this book.) That same day, someone leaked the story of Miles' resurrected candidacy to the press, which not only upset Miles, but effectively boxed him in.
Six days later, on Monday, Dec. 17, Michigan held a press conference to announce Rodriguez as the Wolverines' new football coach. Later that day, Rodriguez flew back to Morgantown, W.Va., to close out his business there. Before he returned a few days later, Carr suddenly called a team meeting. According to five players there, Carr told them he knew some had come to Ann Arbor to play for him, and some to play for Michigan. "But," he said, "you're here to play for Michigan."
"Of course," one player said, "every coach has to say that."
But not every departing coach has to say what Carr said next. He told them he wanted them all to be happy, and he recognized not everyone would want to go through the coaching change to come. So, he said, if any of them wanted to transfer, he would sign the form, since it requires the signature of the player's current coach.
'Mass exodus'

On its face, it seems like a simple, kind offer to look out for people he cared about — and, in fairness, that was probably part of his motive. But it was also interpreted by many of the players as a vote of no confidence in his successor before Rodriguez had conducted a single team meeting, a single workout, a single practice, yelled or sworn at a single player, or coached a single game. It was an invitation from Carr, someone they knew, admired, and looked to for direction — the man who had recruited them and promised their parents he would look out for them like a father — to execute a preemptive bailout, to transfer, to jump to the NFL, or simply to not come back for a fifth year.
Certainly that's how Michigan's former director of compliance, Judy Van Horn, read the gesture. When former director of football operations Scott Draper called over to compliance as soon as the players left the meeting — to give them a heads-up that a line of players might be asking for their transfer papers in a few minutes, and that Carr was prepared to sign all of them — the compliance officer alerted Van Horn. She told Martin of Carr's offer and said, "Bill, we just can't let this happen. It could be a mass exodus."
Van Horn then called Rodriguez. As Van Horn recalled, "Rich said, 'If a player wants to go, I don't want to make him stay. But I don't want Michigan to give any player a release until I've had a chance to talk with him.'"
That seemed fair, even generous, but Van Horn called the Big Ten office to make sure it would not be a violation of league rules. The Big Ten assured her Rodriguez's request was allowable, because he was not keeping anyone from transferring. Satisfied, Van Horn passed on Rodriguez's response to Scott Draper, who replied, "But Lloyd won't like that." The day raised more questions than answers, but no one questioned Draper's devotion to Carr. (Draper declined to be interviewed for this book.)
Carr's feelings aside, that was the policy created that day: Any player who wanted to transfer could do so, provided they talked with the new coach first. But even that low bar was too high for some players, including Ryan Mallett, who only spoke with Rodriguez on the phone before leaving Ann Arbor.
Little in common

There are about three dozen people who worked directly for both Carr and Rodriguez and know them well. Almost every single one of them told me, at one point, "Lloyd never liked Rich."
In many ways, their styles could not be more different. Carr came across as professorial, while Rodriguez was more comfortable as a good ol' boy. Carr was very private, even closed off. Rodriguez was open and outgoing. As early as the 2008 Capital One Bowl, Carr's final game, one athletic department staffer observed, "If those two were driving across the country together and couldn't talk about family or football, they wouldn't have anything to say to each other for 3,000 miles."
Carr was also no fan of the spread offense, which had tormented his team many times. In the last few years of Carr's tenure, he and his staff sponsored a fantasy camp to benefit U-M's children's hospital. In 2007, an adult camper asked one of Carr's assistants if they would learn about the spread offense. "The spread offense?" the assistant spat. "That's Communist football!"
Whatever friction might have existed between the two, it is simply impossible to square Carr's making an unsolicited call to Rodriguez to sell him on Michigan, and telling Martin that Rodriguez might be a good candidate, followed almost immediately by his offer to help any of his players transfer. It's even harder to square those actions with his new role as Michigan's associate athletic director, who was paid $387,000 a year to protect and promote the Michigan athletic department, football above all.
Excerpted from "Three and Out: Rich Rodriguez and the Michigan Wolverines in the Crucible of College Football," by John U. Bacon, published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux, LLC. Copyright 2011 by John U. Bacon. All rights reserved.
'Three and Out'

The Detroit News is publishing excerpts this week from John U. Bacon's new book, "Three and Out: Rich Rodriguez and the Michigan Wolverines in the Crucible of College Football."
Monday: Bill Martin's coaching search
Today: Rich Rodriguez takes over
Wednesday: The NCAA investigation
Thursday: A watershed moment against Illinois
Friday: Finally a bowl, but no fight left


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20111025/...#ixzz1bm2tVqog

[lineygoblue]

Wow.

[Chuck Mallory]

"The spread offense?" the assistant spat. "That's Communist football!"...lol, my thoughts as well, that's funny.

Nothing really new or overly surprising there.

My copy has shipped today.

[Rocky Bleier]

Sure puts a different spin on Carr's "noble" gesture of signing transfer papers.

[whodean]

it is simply impossible to square Carr's making an unsolicited call to Rodriguez to sell him on Michigan, and telling Martin that Rodriguez might be a good candidate, followed almost immediately by his offer to help any of his players transfer.

No, it isn't. Most likely Carr was doing what he thought was the right thing by the players.

I an in favor of any player (at any school) being allowed to immediately transfer if the staff they came to the school to learn from isn't there any more, if coaches can move around, players should be able to also.

[whodean]

I feel like, because Coach Carr wouldn't talk to this guy he will be eviscerated in the book, continuing the Media's vendetta against him for past transgressions. Guess we'll see.