Off Topic: Detroit Red Wings & the NHL - Page 69

Optimus Prime · April 24th, 2012, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingsFan

Last note and im out OP, the Chicago /Phoenix series , every game went into OT. The Boston/Washington series every game has been won by one goal. Parity at its worst.

We've had a 16 team playoff format for it seems nearly forever, I don't have a problem with it. Just get in, get healthy, get on a roll, first team to figure out how win 16 games over 4 rounds.

PackFan:
Sure there were many first-round upsets, damn hot goaltenders stealing more than a few series. Mike Smith, Jonathan Quick, Pekka Rinne, Craig Anderson, Brian Elliott & ROOKIE Braden Holtby, these are your culprits Packy. Besides the Playoffs are an entirely new season as you often remind.

Hannibal · April 24th, 2012, 10:03 AM

The "new NHL" is gone. Take away the Pittsburgh-Philly series, and we're right back to 2004. The officiating is awful. Offense is nonexistent.

A big catalyst is probably the salary cap.

I probably won't watch any more hockey this year other than whatever series Philly is in.

DennisT · April 24th, 2012, 11:31 AM

No problem with parity here. I like it actually. My problem is with hockey franchises in the banana belt. They belong in Canada and the northern tier. Also have a problem with the length of the season. Am kind of pulling for the Yotes now so the Cup can be captured in mid June in Phoenix in basically a water pond due to 115 degree weather just to highlight the sheer idiocy of it.

Optimus Prime · April 24th, 2012, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hannibal

The "new NHL" is gone. Take away the Pittsburgh-Philly series, and we're right back to 2004. The officiating is awful. Offense is nonexistent.

A big catalyst is probably the salary cap.

I probably won't watch any more hockey this year other than whatever series Philly is in.

The Pittsburgh/Philadelphia series was entertaining, in-state rivalry, sub-par to horrific goaltending and complete and total defensive collapses not because they drew lucky officials that let them play.

Typically the teams tighten defensively for the playoffs so there is no surprise here either. The officiating has been inconsistent but that is always a criticism every year anyway. I agree Obstruction must be called in the neutral-zone, teams are clogging the limited space effectively, slowing down the speedsters and skill guys, shame....then patiently waiting for the counterattack but still it ain't no soccer!

With many heavy Cup favorites getting bounced early, it's damn good year to be a UFA...the Nash & Weber sweepstakes just went up bigtime. Whichever teams land them, will both overpay considerably.

Hannibal · April 24th, 2012, 03:20 PM

The previous years since the lockout weren't like this at all. The year the Wings won the Cup and the two years that followed had some of the most exciting playoff series of our lifetime. This year has been a disaster, outside of Pittsburgh-Philly. The Western semifinals this year are St. Louis vs. LA (awful) and Phoenix vs Nashville (beyond awful). The East is shaping up a tad better.

Here are the leading scorers for those four teams:

St. Louis -- David Backes with 54 points
Phoenix -- Ray Whitney with 77 points
Nashville -- Marty Erat with 58 points
LA -- Anze Kopitar with 76 points

That's two teams without a guy who even reached scored 60 points. Pathetic.

In the NFL, the quarterbacks don't suddenly start completing 40% of their passes in the playoffs. In baseball, .300 hitters don't suddenly hit .100. The NHL is the only sport where this happens. It will always languish light years behind the other major sports in popularity and cultural appeal until this changes.

Mike · April 24th, 2012, 08:07 PM

I'll take a hard-fought 3-2 game with great goaltending over an 8-5 shitfest any day.

madootra · April 24th, 2012, 10:19 PM

Me too.

Hannibal · April 25th, 2012, 12:23 PM

So what you're saying is that you found the Pittsburgh-Philly series to be boring as hell.

Um, okay. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

The problem with hockey is that it doesn't take a good goaltender or great defensive talent to see a 3-2 game. Sitting back in the neutral zone and scoring two goals off of turnovers in 60 minutes of play isn't great defense. It's simply conservative style. Defensive games were once special because it meant something. Even in Gretzky's hayday, the Oilers won lots of games 3-1, 2-1, and 3-2. There was suspense in those games because a two goal lead was actually a vulnerable one. Nowadays, if you are leading 3-1 with 10 minutes to go, you can just plug up the neutral zone for the next ten minutes and snooze your way to a victory. It's the style of play that nearly destroyed the league before the lockout.

IMHO the rule change that the league should have made 15 years ago is not allowing the goaltender to touch the puck behind the red line at all. Passive, boring hockey relies heavily upon the goaltenders handling the puck so that the offense can't dump and chase. If the goaltenders in the league never touched the puck behind the red line again, there's not one single iota of value that would be lost. Nothing about the game that the fans love is derived from this boring shit. "Dump and chase" would actually be a legitimate scoring strategy. You would see more aggression and more forechecking. But you would still see defense too, and goaltending, of course.

madootra · April 25th, 2012, 12:30 PM

So what you're saying is that you found the Pittsburgh-Philly series to be boring as hell.

Nope. Try again.

Hannibal · April 25th, 2012, 12:38 PM

IMHO the goaltenders should be forced to move the puck more often too. The most boring games are also the ones where there is a whistle every 20 seconds because the goaltenders freeze every single shot.

Optimus Prime · April 25th, 2012, 03:11 PM

Hanni, I agree. Essentially scoring has become more difficult because goaltenders have become the "a third defensemen" immune from contact while playing the puck coupled with well-meaning regulations, have increase the size of equipment beyond the pale.

Goaltenders and their equipment have so dominated the game in recent years that you almost never see goals scored off the wing by skaters flying down the ice ala Guy Lafleur. Combine that equipment with improved athletic ability, full-time goalie coaches, and the tactics of defense-minded coaches who are quite content to drop five skaters below the circles to form a shield, and it's little wonder scoring hasn't been significantly on the uptick.
It did climb a bit that first season after the lockout, but it wasn't substantial growth, and after players and coaches adjusted to the new rules and the league allowed defensemen more latitude with physical contact, scoring is the No.1 problem in the game again.

Ken Dryden was 6 foot 4 inches in height and considered a giant in his day, arguably one of best to ever play the position, he hardly had the proper equipment to protect while defending. The photo clearly illustrates the amount of net still available for scoring as apposed to the 18 year old TO kid wearing regulation equipment today. The NHL should return to the day when a goalie playing the puck outside his crease was essentially a "6th attacker" and eligible for physical contact. Prohibiting the goaltender from playing the puck behind the goal line would help as well... they have become incredible athletes that have been given too much protection, while the goal size has remanded constant at 4' x 6' feet.

Optimus Prime · April 25th, 2012, 03:50 PM

Tribute to Guy....if there was ever a better skater, I'd like to know. "Le Démon Blond", I salute you!

Tony G · April 25th, 2012, 04:10 PM

Optimus Prime · April 25th, 2012, 04:36 PM

Close but no cigar, you really must stop drinking that "downriver water".

Failure to include Scott Nedermayer ot Valri Kharlamov cost your credibility.

Rob F · April 25th, 2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus Prime

Tribute to Guy....if there was ever a better skater, I'd like to know. "Le Démon Blond", I salute you!

Aren't those...the Cleveland Barons(???) chasing LeFleur in that photo? Wow, I had completely forgotten about that team. I'll have to look it up, but if I remember correctly, they were to Hockey what the Seattle Pilots were to Baseball--a team in danger of folding by mid-season in their first year, a team that lasted only one season, playing in a sub-standard facility in a town that at best didn't care and at worst had no clue. Didn't the Barons merge with another team after that first year? At least with the Pilots, I know of their fate---they moved to Milwaukee and became the Brewers.

Optimus Prime · April 26th, 2012, 10:06 AM

Rob the Cleveland Barons used to the be California Golden Seals (1967 expansion franchise). Lasted 9 seasons in the Bay Area but then relocated to Ohio in (1976-78 ) eventually the Club was absorbed by the Minnesota North Stars.

Remember the Kansas City Scouts (1974-76), they became the Colorado Rockies?!?

Tony G · April 26th, 2012, 10:07 AM

Who begat the NJ Devils

Optimus Prime · April 26th, 2012, 10:17 AM

The club was founded in Kansas City, Missouri as the Kansas City Scouts in 1974, moved to Denver, Colorado as the Colorado Rockies after only two seasons, and then settled in New Jersey in 1982.

Tony G · April 26th, 2012, 10:19 AM

BTW OP, You're entitled to your opinion but I still put Bobby ahead of LaFleur. It's a pickem race between Sergei, Coffey and LaFluer with Gartner not far behind.

Optimus Prime · April 26th, 2012, 11:08 AM

Hard to ague, many say Maurice Richard. I'd have to say Gartner may have been the fastest but Lafleur was also one of the most exciting players ever to watch because of his speed and goal scoring guys I saw play anyway.

I'd Add Bure, Messier, Dionne a few others.

April 25th, 2012, 12:23 PM	#1368
Hannibal Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,644	So what you're saying is that you found the Pittsburgh-Philly series to be boring as hell. Um, okay. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. The problem with hockey is that it doesn't take a good goaltender or great defensive talent to see a 3-2 game. Sitting back in the neutral zone and scoring two goals off of turnovers in 60 minutes of play isn't great defense. It's simply conservative style. Defensive games were once special because it meant something. Even in Gretzky's hayday, the Oilers won lots of games 3-1, 2-1, and 3-2. There was suspense in those games because a two goal lead was actually a vulnerable one. Nowadays, if you are leading 3-1 with 10 minutes to go, you can just plug up the neutral zone for the next ten minutes and snooze your way to a victory. It's the style of play that nearly destroyed the league before the lockout. IMHO the rule change that the league should have made 15 years ago is not allowing the goaltender to touch the puck behind the red line at all. Passive, boring hockey relies heavily upon the goaltenders handling the puck so that the offense can't dump and chase. If the goaltenders in the league never touched the puck behind the red line again, there's not one single iota of value that would be lost. Nothing about the game that the fans love is derived from this boring shit. "Dump and chase" would actually be a legitimate scoring strategy. You would see more aggression and more forechecking. But you would still see defense too, and goaltending, of course. Last edited by Hannibal; April 25th, 2012 at 12:34 PM.

April 25th, 2012, 03:11 PM	#1371
Optimus Prime Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Coconut Grove, Florida Posts: 2,582	Hanni, I agree. Essentially scoring has become more difficult because goaltenders have become the "a third defensemen" immune from contact while playing the puck coupled with well-meaning regulations, have increase the size of equipment beyond the pale. Goaltenders and their equipment have so dominated the game in recent years that you almost never see goals scored off the wing by skaters flying down the ice ala Guy Lafleur. Combine that equipment with improved athletic ability, full-time goalie coaches, and the tactics of defense-minded coaches who are quite content to drop five skaters below the circles to form a shield, and it's little wonder scoring hasn't been significantly on the uptick. It did climb a bit that first season after the lockout, but it wasn't substantial growth, and after players and coaches adjusted to the new rules and the league allowed defensemen more latitude with physical contact, scoring is the No.1 problem in the game again. Ken Dryden was 6 foot 4 inches in height and considered a giant in his day, arguably one of best to ever play the position, he hardly had the proper equipment to protect while defending. The photo clearly illustrates the amount of net still available for scoring as apposed to the 18 year old TO kid wearing regulation equipment today. The NHL should return to the day when a goalie playing the puck outside his crease was essentially a "6th attacker" and eligible for physical contact. Prohibiting the goaltender from playing the puck behind the goal line would help as well... they have become incredible athletes that have been given too much protection, while the goal size has remanded constant at 4' x 6' feet. Last edited by Optimus Prime; April 25th, 2012 at 03:21 PM.

April 25th, 2012, 03:50 PM	#1372
Optimus Prime Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Coconut Grove, Florida Posts: 2,582	Tribute to Guy....if there was ever a better skater, I'd like to know. "Le Démon Blond", I salute you! Last edited by Optimus Prime; April 25th, 2012 at 03:57 PM.

April 25th, 2012, 04:10 PM	#1373
Tony G Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Downriver Posts: 12,055	__________________ Deacon Jones “I don’t like that he hasn’t learned the right way to step on somebody,... You kick him, you don’t stomp him.”

April 25th, 2012, 04:36 PM	#1374
Optimus Prime Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Coconut Grove, Florida Posts: 2,582	Close but no cigar, you really must stop drinking that "downriver water". Failure to include Scott Nedermayer ot Valri Kharlamov cost your credibility. Last edited by Optimus Prime; April 25th, 2012 at 07:56 PM.

April 24th, 2012, 10:03 AM	#1362
Hannibal Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,644	The "new NHL" is gone. Take away the Pittsburgh-Philly series, and we're right back to 2004. The officiating is awful. Offense is nonexistent. A big catalyst is probably the salary cap. I probably won't watch any more hockey this year other than whatever series Philly is in.

April 24th, 2012, 11:31 AM	#1363
DennisT Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,169	No problem with parity here. I like it actually. My problem is with hockey franchises in the banana belt. They belong in Canada and the northern tier. Also have a problem with the length of the season. Am kind of pulling for the Yotes now so the Cup can be captured in mid June in Phoenix in basically a water pond due to 115 degree weather just to highlight the sheer idiocy of it.

April 24th, 2012, 03:20 PM	#1365
Hannibal Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,644	The previous years since the lockout weren't like this at all. The year the Wings won the Cup and the two years that followed had some of the most exciting playoff series of our lifetime. This year has been a disaster, outside of Pittsburgh-Philly. The Western semifinals this year are St. Louis vs. LA (awful) and Phoenix vs Nashville (beyond awful). The East is shaping up a tad better. Here are the leading scorers for those four teams: St. Louis -- David Backes with 54 points Phoenix -- Ray Whitney with 77 points Nashville -- Marty Erat with 58 points LA -- Anze Kopitar with 76 points That's two teams without a guy who even reached scored 60 points. Pathetic. In the NFL, the quarterbacks don't suddenly start completing 40% of their passes in the playoffs. In baseball, .300 hitters don't suddenly hit .100. The NHL is the only sport where this happens. It will always languish light years behind the other major sports in popularity and cultural appeal until this changes.

April 24th, 2012, 08:07 PM	#1366
Mike Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,670	I'll take a hard-fought 3-2 game with great goaltending over an 8-5 shitfest any day.

April 24th, 2012, 10:19 PM	#1367
madootra Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 993	Me too.

April 25th, 2012, 12:30 PM	#1369
madootra Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 993	So what you're saying is that you found the Pittsburgh-Philly series to be boring as hell. Nope. Try again.

April 25th, 2012, 12:38 PM	#1370
Hannibal Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,644	IMHO the goaltenders should be forced to move the puck more often too. The most boring games are also the ones where there is a whistle every 20 seconds because the goaltenders freeze every single shot.

April 26th, 2012, 10:06 AM	#1376
Optimus Prime Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Coconut Grove, Florida Posts: 2,582	Rob the Cleveland Barons used to the be California Golden Seals (1967 expansion franchise). Lasted 9 seasons in the Bay Area but then relocated to Ohio in (1976-78 ) eventually the Club was absorbed by the Minnesota North Stars. Remember the Kansas City Scouts (1974-76), they became the Colorado Rockies?!?

April 26th, 2012, 10:07 AM	#1377
Tony G Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Downriver Posts: 12,055	Who begat the NJ Devils __________________ Deacon Jones “I don’t like that he hasn’t learned the right way to step on somebody,... You kick him, you don’t stomp him.”

April 26th, 2012, 10:17 AM	#1378
Optimus Prime Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Coconut Grove, Florida Posts: 2,582	The club was founded in Kansas City, Missouri as the Kansas City Scouts in 1974, moved to Denver, Colorado as the Colorado Rockies after only two seasons, and then settled in New Jersey in 1982.

April 26th, 2012, 10:19 AM	#1379
Tony G Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Downriver Posts: 12,055	BTW OP, You're entitled to your opinion but I still put Bobby ahead of LaFleur. It's a pickem race between Sergei, Coffey and LaFluer with Gartner not far behind. __________________ Deacon Jones “I don’t like that he hasn’t learned the right way to step on somebody,... You kick him, you don’t stomp him.”

April 26th, 2012, 11:08 AM	#1380
Optimus Prime Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Coconut Grove, Florida Posts: 2,582	Hard to ague, many say Maurice Richard. I'd have to say Gartner may have been the fastest but Lafleur was also one of the most exciting players ever to watch because of his speed and goal scoring guys I saw play anyway. I'd Add Bure, Messier, Dionne a few others.