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Old December 23rd, 2017, 10:28 AM   #30261
Da Geezer
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I thought the Atlantic article linked below does a good job in this balanced analysis - cuts the hype coming from the White House.

The second link from the NYT allows you to see in broad terms what income group you'll fall in for tax purposes and then predicts the tax benefits or costs to you.
Those articles are just more of the left-wing nonsense that is now being spewed because the Dems/media (really the same party) were unable to stop the tax cuts.

Some fallacies:
- Assuming everything about the corporate tax cut that the left says is true, that only 25% or so will go directly to employees, and the rest going to dividends or buy-backs, those dividends and buy-backs ultimately make all pension and retirement programs more solvent because they drive up the stock price.
- When the top 20% of earners pay 95% of the taxes, and the top 1% pay 57% of taxes, it is pretty hard to design a tax cut that doesn't benefit the people actually paying taxes. Of course, 85% of the Dem base pays no taxes, so it is a bit disingenuous to complain about unfairness in the cuts. The cuts are only "unfair" because the current tax system is so profoundly progressive that any cut would benefit the top 20%.
- We will have a way to check who is telling the truth. Those of you who work, check your paycheck in February. Did you get a tax cut? 80% of Americans will.
- Demedia never considers growth. A growing economy covers a lot of sins, and is the only feasible way to cut into the National Debt other than hyperinflation.
-Demedia is also lying about how this tax cut will raise individual taxes after 9 years. Nothing of the sort will happen, any more than Medicaid will be cut. Tax cuts and entitlement programs are difficult to eliminate.
-Most important, people and corporations get to keep more of their own money and spend it the way they want to spend it. Liberty means something to us liberals.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 10:32 AM   #30262
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oh.. and the recent speeches by the VP and other cabinet members... where they've openly praised trump or privately went around a table praising him is actually scary. That is something we'd see from NK. Our president shouldn't have people praising him to demonstrate loyalty.
Absolutely right. To insist on such brazen goo goobling indicates a deep seated insecurity and lack of confidence or possibly the onset of meglomania. We have a deeply disturbed individual occupying the Oval Office.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 10:44 AM   #30263
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its hard to give someone paying 0 in taxes a tax cut
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 10:45 AM   #30264
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 11:26 AM   #30265
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its hard to give someone paying 0 in taxes a tax cut
Yet they ARE going to get a cut with the doubling of the child credits...so even though they pay no taxes currently they will get bigger refunds...and STILL the left bitches.

You can't make a whiner happy.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 11:39 AM   #30266
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 12:02 PM   #30267
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For what it's worth, I have little problem with the tax cuts. I have a big problem with how they are going to pay for them.

My favorite thing is when Trump says how this or that measure is the best in 10 years. Of course it is. Stupid republican fiscal policy destroyed the economy ten years ago. . Merry Christmas!
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 01:01 PM   #30268
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Stupid republican fiscal policy destroyed the economy ten years ago.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 01:27 PM   #30269
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Miller, had given him just before the meeting. The document listed how many immigrants had received visas to enter the United States in 2017.

More than 2,500 were from Afghanistan, a terrorist haven, the president complained. Haiti had sent 15,000 people. They “all have AIDS,” he grumbled, according to one person who attended the meeting and another person who was briefed about it by a different person who was there.

Forty thousand had come from Nigeria, Mr. Trump added. Once they had seen the United States, they would never “go back to their huts” in Africa, recalled the two officials, who asked for anonymity to discuss a sensitive conversation in the Oval Office.

As the meeting continued, John F. Kelly, then the secretary of homeland security, and Rex W. Tillerson, the secretary of state, tried to interject, explaining that many were short-term travelers making one-time visits. But as the president continued, Mr. Kelly and Mr. Miller turned their ire on Mr. Tillerson, blaming him for the influx of foreigners and prompting the secretary of state to throw up his arms in frustration. If he was so bad at his job, maybe he should stop issuing visas altogether, Mr. Tillerson fired back.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/23/u...migration.html
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 02:29 PM   #30270
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To be fair, it was Clinton that really opened things up for Wall Street. Certainly the Bush 43 folks didn't help.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 03:17 PM   #30271
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To be fair, it was Clinton that really opened things up for Wall Street. Certainly the Bush 43 folks didn't help.
Lmao. The only thing Clinton did to help was NAFTA...and he needed a Republican Congress to get that. Clinton was the benificary of the dot com boom. He had nothing to do with it. Algore did...he invented the internet as you know...
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 03:46 PM   #30272
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I was criticizing Clinton in response to the same "stupid Republican policy..." comment, you dope.

There are two things more stupid than Republican policy: Clinton repealing Glass/Steagall and you. But to be fair you are more stupid than both put together.

WHY THE HELL WOULD YOUR TYPE THINK NAFTA IS A GOOD THING THOUGH?
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 03:48 PM   #30273
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These are not the largest tax cuts in history. Not even close. The 1986 cut was 2.9% of GDP. This one is 1.1% of GDP. This one may be the biggest in terms of actual dollars, but not in relative terms.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 06:55 PM   #30274
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NAFTA desimated Detroit, and it decimated Flint.

On the whole it was a good thing for the consumers of this country, but for certain areas it was devastating. Particularity the areas that put all of their eggs in the manufacturing basket.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 07:55 PM   #30275
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Miller, had given him just before the meeting. The document listed how many immigrants had received visas to enter the United States in 2017.

More than 2,500 were from Afghanistan, a terrorist haven, the president complained. Haiti had sent 15,000 people. They “all have AIDS,” he grumbled, according to one person who attended the meeting and another person who was briefed about it by a different person who was there.

Forty thousand had come from Nigeria, Mr. Trump added. Once they had seen the United States, they would never “go back to their huts” in Africa, recalled the two officials, who asked for anonymity to discuss a sensitive conversation in the Oval Office.

As the meeting continued, John F. Kelly, then the secretary of homeland security, and Rex W. Tillerson, the secretary of state, tried to interject, explaining that many were short-term travelers making one-time visits. But as the president continued, Mr. Kelly and Mr. Miller turned their ire on Mr. Tillerson, blaming him for the influx of foreigners and prompting the secretary of state to throw up his arms in frustration. If he was so bad at his job, maybe he should stop issuing visas altogether, Mr. Tillerson fired back.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/23/u...migration.html
All persons present at the meeting have denied this lie in its entirety. How does a President fight this kind of character assassination using anonymous sources?

And the $ 4,000 figure the NYT uses as the "projected tax cut" is about double what the OMB predicts.

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Old December 23rd, 2017, 08:36 PM   #30276
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oh.. and the recent speeches by the VP and other cabinet members... where they've openly praised trump or privately went around a table praising him is actually scary. That is something we'd see from NK. Our president shouldn't have people praising him to demonstrate loyalty.
Recent? Been going on since day 1 and when he went to PR for his photo op.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 10:17 PM   #30277
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Originally Posted by Da Geezer View Post
All persons present at the meeting have denied this lie in its entirety. How does a President fight this kind of character assassination using anonymous sources?

And the $ 4,000 figure the NYT uses as the "projected tax cut" is about double what the OMB predicts.
At least one person who was in the meeting confirms that's what Trump said. Sorry it was off-the-record. They probably want to keep their shitty job. Unless you think multiple NY Times reporters are all lying...wait, of COURSE you prefer to believe that the NY Times reporters are all lying and they simply made this shit up.

I'm confident it's not a lie. It sounds like him based on decades of public statements he's made.

Last edited by Dr. Strangelove; December 23rd, 2017 at 10:26 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 10:42 PM   #30278
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At least one person who was in the meeting confirms that's what Trump said. Sorry it was off-the-record. They probably want to keep their shitty job. Unless you think multiple NY Times reporters are all lying...wait, of COURSE you prefer to believe that the NY Times reporters are all lying and they simply made this shit up.

I'm confident it's not a lie. It sounds like him based on decades of public statements he's made.
Everyone in the room has denied the lie. Last week's lie was that Trump was going to fire Mueller. Never sourced, always anonymous. given the NYT's history regarding Trump, I'll believe Tillerson et al.

My bigger point though is how does a President under this constant barrage of untrue garbage form any kind of coalition for infrastructure or welfare reform?

DSL: Would you personally favor drug testing for welfare recipients? Would you favor work requirements?
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 10:53 PM   #30279
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Originally Posted by Da Geezer View Post
Everyone in the room has denied the lie. Last week's lie was that Trump was going to fire Mueller. Never sourced, always anonymous. given the NYT's history regarding Trump, I'll believe Tillerson et al.

My bigger point though is how does a President under this constant barrage of untrue garbage form any kind of coalition for infrastructure or welfare reform?

DSL: Would you personally favor drug testing for welfare recipients? Would you favor work requirements?
The NY Times piece had dozens of off-the-record accounts from govt officials. I don't believe the reporters simply made shit up. I couldn't care less if these administration idiots didn't have the guts to repeat his words on-the-record. The words sound like him. This is the guy who insisted a Hispanic judge couldn't handle the Trump U case fairly. This is the guy who insisted the Central Park Five were guilty even after DNA evidence exonerated them. This is the guy who for years after Obama produced a birth certificate continued to insist it was fake. He's a compulsive liar and a bigot. Only an imbecile would trust Trump's word. Only an imbecile would trust Breitbart or James O'Keefe as reliable news sources.

Merry Christmas!
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 11:07 PM   #30280
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Yeah it's just inconceivable that Trump would describe immigrants as being riddled with disease.

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