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Old September 22nd, 2017, 11:36 AM   #6921
Topweasel
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Originally Posted by chemiclord View Post
I didn't really have a problem with it either, the point at the time was that Cutler 2.0 is plenty good enough to have playoff success... he'd just need more support than those "elite" QBs that can largely carry an offense on their own.

But last year and the start of this year has shown that he's taken that next step. He's still not QUITE Rodgers or Brady, but ya know what? Once those two retire, there will be a strong case that he's the best QB in the NFL.
Very true and we have seen not the greatest ever QB's get to the big game just with more help. Would it be easier if he was the next Brady, sure. But he even then was enough QB to keep the Lions competitive and give us a chance in the Play-offs assuming everyone else did their job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Futureshock View Post

But it is just my belief that a player ascends or descends. Once he descends then we can make judgement of who he is. MS has consistently ascended every single year he's been in the league.

I couldn't tell you if he will ever beat a team in the playoffs or win a Superbowl. Anyone that thinks they do are full of crap. Too much snap shot rushing to judge him IMO. That's also on the optimigos also, because he will inevitably have some bad games (all players do), when that happens how many will turn on him? Only to jump back on the bandwagon after he has another good game.

I'm hopeful. He's given no reason to believe he will not. Keep showin em Matt!
This was heading into the 2014 season with us getting a new coach and discussions about that coach being saddled with a QB he might not want. We knew coaches like to come in and shake things up and whether he would want Stafford. We pretty much knew Stafford was going to be on the team in 2014 but unsure after that.

I note that not to give validity to the idea of moving on from Stafford. But to give an idea of when and how the discussion got started, where the Cutler 2.0 point was brought up. Even Chemic who had always been cautious when talking about Stafford, didn't mean this to be derogatory, and this was before the major collapse of Cutler. It was meant to establish the player type. A QB that will wow you and put in an impressive game but a QB that will try to force that ball into a spot one too many times.

The reason we came to terms one that was 2011. 5K Yards, 40TDs. The future was bright. Then 2012 and 2013 he had been descending. His INT's stayed flat. His TD's went down. His completion percentage stayed low. We didn't know if we would see 2011 again. Honestly it really didn't look like we would. Even 14 and 15 wasn't that great even if Stafford looked better, our offense was sputtering, we weren't scoring very well. Up intil last year I thought that Stafford may have hit a ceiling. It was either going to be a balls to the wall offense that also meant a share of mistakes, or a one that they would try to reel that back in and if that would even work.

So while I knew that Stafford was young enough and would still have room to grow. We weren't seeing any growth and honestly a decent amount descending performances.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 11:41 AM   #6922
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When he was drafted he was Cutler 2.0 (AS NOTED BACK THEN) and still is until he wins something, anything of note.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 11:46 AM   #6923
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He's Dan Marino 2.0 until he wins something of substance, as noted on draft day.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 11:47 AM   #6924
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He's Dan Marino 2.0 until he wins something of substance, as noted on draft day.

The Cutler comparison was always stupid. Always.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 11:57 AM   #6925
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Prove me wrong. For once, instead of attacking me, prove me wrong. I showed you using empirical INFO that their performance is identical - now show me why that analysis is wrong.

Are you capable of doing that, or are you going to be a simpleton and just attack me?
Let's take a trip down Stupidity Lane.

I started off by asking this to Malto Marko on the Stafford contract thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Lion View Post
But how can a fan not even give a shit when the first pass of the season is a pick 6?
You replied with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwt1 View Post
Do you know that you idolize a running back who once told David Letterman that we didn't care if Detroit wins or loses?
I replied with:

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Originally Posted by Iron Lion View Post
Dafuq are you talking about?
You replied:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwt1 View Post
Barry Sanders, after losing to the Packers two years in a row he was on the letterman show the week following the loss, January 1994 (it was actually a reschedule from the week after the season, Barry had to cancel for the playoffs). Letterman asked him if it hurts to lose to the same team two years in the row. Barry's answer was no, he didn't care. As a matter of fact after a line of questioning concerning a NFL player, what's it like, winning losing etc, Barry's answers led Letterman to point blank ask if he was sure he's the n the right line of work.
I replied with:

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Originally Posted by Iron Lion View Post
Not what I was asking about.


{Quote:
Originally Posted by dwt1
Do you know that you idolize a running back
End Quote}

Again, good sir, dafuq are you talking about?
You replied:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwt1 View Post
It's to you comment that you find it strange that I don't care that he threw a pick 6. Do you find it strange that the dude you believe to be the greatness Lion player ever, didn't care if they won or lost?
I then selectively quoted "the dude you believe to be the greatness Lion player ever" and replied:

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Originally Posted by Iron Lion View Post
Again, dafuq are you talking about? Who are you talking to? Iron Lion from 5 years ago? I haven't said anything about Barry in years.

I haven't seen you wet the bed with endless stupidity, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt despite everyone telling me otherwise. And this is what happens. I get the sense from everyone that you refuse to admit when you're wrong. It will be interesting to see if you continue to saddle me with words and phrases that I have not uttered, insisting that you are correct and that I need to catch up.
Several posts later, in response to dpatnod, you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwt1 View Post
Why are you making shit up? I never said I wasn't the GM so I can't name a replacement, not once why do you have to make up a lie? I said I didn't know and I didn't care because it didn't matter.
I thought your hypocrisy was hilarious, so I jumped in and said:

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Originally Posted by Iron Lion View Post
So you don't like it when people stuff words into your mouth? Why do it to me?
You replied:

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Originally Posted by dwt1 View Post
What words did I stuff in your mouth? Where did I say you said something you didn't say.
At this point I was exasperated with your stupidity. But let me make this crystal clear for you:

You repeatedly told me that I idolized Barry Sanders, despite the fact that I don't even remember mentioning his name on these forums, and then you had "no idea" where you were stuffing words into my mouth. You, sir, are a complete fucking moron, a hypocrite, dishonest, and you can kindly fuck off.



With regards to JLo vs the Cooter, you neglect to mention that the 11-5 Lions had a historically epic run defense. Back in 1925 when 3-0 games were the norm, teams were still giving up more rushing yards than the 11-5 Lions. That's what got the Lions a wildcard, not fucking JLo calling plays. And, shockingly, when Suh left and the defense regressed to the norm the next year, the Lions were shit with JLo. Then JLo was axed, and the Lions started winning. Again, you are a complete fucktard.

I don't even know what conversations you've had with other people here, but they've come to the same conclusion as me. In science, we call this cross-confirmation. There's nothing that is more conclusive than cross-confirmation. Good day, fucktard.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:04 PM   #6926
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LOL.

This is how it always goes. Somebody that hasn't experienced DimWiT fully tries to have a discussion with him. Eventually they get beaten down by his stupidity and give up.

The problem is that the rest of us that have been through the drill over and over and over again are subjected to it again.

Welcome to the club.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:05 PM   #6927
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He's Dan Marino 2.0 until he wins something of substance, as noted on draft day.
QFT. Just lose the Harbaugh avatar u make me want to punch the screen
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:05 PM   #6928
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LOL.

This is how it always goes. Somebody that hasn't experienced DimWiT fully tries to have a discussion with him. Eventually they get beaten down by his stupidity and give up.

The problem is that the rest of us that have been through the drill over and over and over again are subjected to it again.

Welcome to the club.
Thanks, do I get a membership card?
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:11 PM   #6929
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I believe it's called the ignore button, although I do not employ it personally.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:38 PM   #6930
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He was never considered Dan Marino-esque back to his draft date.

Cutler on the other hand was oft used.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:50 PM   #6931
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Stafford's draft day comparisons were Brett Favre, Jay Cutler, and Jon Elway I believe...
It took until 2016 to get Stafford a GM that can build a good football team around him. Mayhew had so many hits and misses.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:53 PM   #6932
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IL dropping the mic!
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:59 PM   #6933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Lion View Post
Let's take a trip down Stupidity Lane.

I started off by asking this to Malto Marko on the Stafford contract thread:



You replied with:



I replied with:



You replied:



I replied with:



You replied:



I then selectively quoted "the dude you believe to be the greatness Lion player ever" and replied:



Several posts later, in response to dpatnod, you said:



I thought your hypocrisy was hilarious, so I jumped in and said:



You replied:



At this point I was exasperated with your stupidity. But let me make this crystal clear for you:

You repeatedly told me that I idolized Barry Sanders, despite the fact that I don't even remember mentioning his name on these forums, and then you had "no idea" where you were stuffing words into my mouth. You, sir, are a complete fucking moron, a hypocrite, dishonest, and you can kindly fuck off.



With regards to JLo vs the Cooter, you neglect to mention that the 11-5 Lions had a historically epic run defense. Back in 1925 when 3-0 games were the norm, teams were still giving up more rushing yards than the 11-5 Lions. That's what got the Lions a wildcard, not fucking JLo calling plays. And, shockingly, when Suh left and the defense regressed to the norm the next year, the Lions were shit with JLo. Then JLo was axed, and the Lions started winning. Again, you are a complete fucktard.

I don't even know what conversations you've had with other people here, but they've come to the same conclusion as me. In science, we call this cross-confirmation. There's nothing that is more conclusive than cross-confirmation. Good day, fucktard.
Repeatedly? I said it once, that's repeatedly?

I should I mention it? I considered it, analyzed and thought about but came to the conclusion that the long history of losing to winning teams was a bigger factor, why? Because even with with a historically epic run defense they couldn't beat winning teams. And then I looked at the following season the pattern remained, they started the season losing to winning teams fired Lombardi, started playing losing and started winning, but still lost to winning teams. Both years were exactly the same, great defense or not, beat losing teams, lose to winning teams.

And then if you look at thier offensive performance over the three year, they are nearly identical regardless of who the OC was. Typically they were rated between 18 and 22 best offenses. Then if you went and looked at how many drives each year resulted in scores, they were surpringly the same too, approximately 33% of offensive drives ended in scores. BTW, that were they are this year so far.

You can back to attacking me, that's all you have.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 01:17 PM   #6934
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:11 PM   #6935
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...So while I knew that Stafford was young enough and would still have room to grow. We weren't seeing any growth and honestly a decent amount descending performances.
I guess I need to clarify. When I personally look at a QB, I look at a lot of things. Pre-reads, throwing motions, pocket awareness, scrambling ability (not that he has to be Cam Newton, but is he willing to get out there and run for a 3 yard first when all the defenders are 20 yards away), can he make all the throws, touch on his passes, does he throw a catchable ball, is he brittle, does he command the offense, post snap reads, etc...

None of this is Earth shattering stuff. You can be as dumb of a fan as I am (well, that's debatable ) and see this for yourself. As a matter of fact, every last one of those things were said about MS in years past. Some were major questions that I, and others here, have posed in past years. He's come a long way baby. The growth has been slow but steady.

To me, things like scoring is important, but how do you qualify that when there are too many variables to honestly say unequivocally that he is the reason why they did or didn't.

He has never descended.

Quote:
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The Cutler comparison was always stupid. Always.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:21 PM   #6936
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Let MS's last game serve as proof of why stats are the life bread of FF. Not the catch all for the real game.

He threw for what 122 yds and 2 TDs? He won't get in the HOF with those type of stats. But he did everything necessary to get his team in position to be successful. In the end that's all he can do.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:21 PM   #6937
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As I have often repeated, if a couple specific posters disagree with my takes, I know for certain that I'm on the right track.

Cutler still has more playoff wins than Stafford.

Blame all the reasons you want but facts are facts. And they don't change just because you don't like them.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:25 PM   #6938
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Originally Posted by Futureshock View Post
Let MS's last game serve as proof of why stats are the life bread of FF. Not the catch all for the real game.

He threw for what 122 yds and 2 TDs? He won't get in the HOF with those type of stats. But he did everything necessary to get his team in position to be successful. In the end that's all he can do.
Which QB took flack years (and years) ago after like a (sub?) 100 yard passing game but said he played well? Was that Joe H.? I had no problem with that.

I see it all the time in KC with A Smith. He doesn't put up respected FF stats but gets the W more times than not. That's all that matters.

I personally think that last week was Staffords best professional road game. He did all the little things that chuck and luck can never do.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:30 PM   #6939
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As I have often repeated, if a couple specific posters disagree with my takes, I know for certain that I'm on the right track.

Cutler still has more playoff wins than Stafford.

Blame all the reasons you want but facts are facts. And they don't change just because you don't like them.
I know for certain, in the ultimate team game, touting QB W/L as the be all, end all is ignorant and lazy. Congrats on getting your takes from ESPN, youre getting soooooo deep.

Ignant and lazy, ignant and lazy...gonoptes.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:33 PM   #6940
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I personally think that last week was Staffords best professional road game. He did all the little things.
I actually think the Saints game last year was his best. Almost every drive was successful. They settled for FGs on some drives, but, the game wasn't in question because it seemed like he could do whatever he wanted.

But last week was #2. That NYG D is really tough and good. He didn't force stats (throwing the ball when he had the lead to pad stats) and made a way. Rallied his O behind him, etc...
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