Michigan vs. FSU, Orange Bowl, 8pm, ESPN, Game Day - Post Game Discussion

[AlabamAlum]

Third party? As in, a non P5 crew?

[hack]

Not from the two conferences the teams come from. ACC, B12 or Pac10 supply for an SEC/B1G match, i.e.

If it really has to come to that.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Disagree. For conference games it should be a conference crew. For fuck sake if a P5 conference can't get a competent crew for their highest profile games then God help them. I see issues with crossing over one of them being simply that conferences typically have their type of football and now you ask a conference crew for one week to go officiate potentially a complete different type football...I.e. a B1G crew going to do the track meet known as the Big 12. Just don't think that is the answer.

[hack]

Seems reasonable, but clearly they do need help. Shouldn't just be from God. If one team has a significantly greater number of Jews or Muslims then I think you have to go with a Buddhist or Hindu god as a helper.

Seriously, just some attention paid would really help. Pay them properly and make them accountable. If the conference won't do it somebody else has to. There's a for-profit business model somewhere in there, if you can get up enough startup capital to chart every decision by every ref and publish the information.

[THE_WIZARD_]

In other words you want a perfectly called game 100% of the time.

Good luck with that. It's a fast game with bang bang plays and mistakes will happen. For those who have never officiated a football game...let alone a college game...pretty easy to look at it and come up with solutions. Bottom line is we can always improve...all of us in all occupations...but mistakes are going to happen. Period.

[AlabamAlum]

The spot wasn't an issue in my opinion. And missed PIs happen - both way so. Most secondary coaches school their DBs on how to PI and get away with it.

Speaking of, did any of you see the piece on ESPN with Jabrill Peppers showing how he would defend against Desmond Howard? Jabrill talked about he "cheats a little bit because the refs can't see this." Also, SEC refs, and I assume this is everywhere, generally ignore the "uncatchable ball" rule in PI. PI complaints both ways have become the new holding call complaint of this season. You get hooked and shoved and held and held and hope for the best- in the SEC, anyway.

[Rocky Bleier]

In other words you want a perfectly called game 100% of the time.

Good luck with that. It's a fast game with bang bang plays and mistakes will happen. For those who have never officiated a football game...let alone a college game...pretty easy to look at it and come up with solutions. Bottom line is we can always improve...all of us in all occupations...but mistakes are going to happen. Period.

How hard would this have been?

[hack]

In other words you want a perfectly called game 100% of the time.

Didn't say that. Are you saying that conferences should not try to improve the quality of refereeing?

[THE_WIZARD_]

Reread my post. I said we can all improve. But missed calls will happen. Because of basically one bad call in The Game you think there needs to be some Val type Conspiracy Committee formed. Lol.

Every conference has the resources to improve the level of officiating they have. But its better than what Joe Six-Pack thinks.

[hack]

You should read my posts too. We've been talking about conflicts of interest here, and not fast game/bang bang plays kinds of issues.

[THE_WIZARD_]

I commented on that earlier too. One bad no call in a PI and you take that as proof of conflict of interest? Not starting an argument I just am asking a legitimate question.

[hack]

Because of basically one bad call in The Game you think there needs to be some Val type Conspiracy Committee formed.

I've said I don't think The Spot was really the thing. I said that when you have The Spot combined with four PI calls on third down each of which went OSU's way, then at that point you might start to have questions about whether the system could use a little scrutiny. And, at that point, you might as well wonder about why conflicts-of-interest rules were not followed, or whether they had changed. They clearly had been in place at one point.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Four? Uh ok. I saw one definitive non-call on a PI. The rest looked ok...maybe 50/50 at best on another. One certainly looked bad. Not four. Do you think M wins if they get that call?

[hack]

I commented on that earlier too. One bad no call in a PI and you take that as proof of conflict of interest? Not starting an argument I just am asking a legitimate question.

Who said one PI? It was four, on third downs that generously put could have gone either way. All four went for the home team. If you have four of them, maybe at that point you think at least one goes M's way. Not all four going OSU's way. You expect home cooking in the other team's stadium, but to that extent? Seems unreasonable. Did I say that this is proof of a conflict of interest? I don't think I did. I don't know if that's a legitimate question. But, again, you have these things piling on top of each other:

-a spot that, at the very least, you'd think might have been approached more carefully, like by using the chains

-the PI calls

-the discrepancy in overall flags thrown

-the stated application of basketball rules to football

-the knowledge that in the past in-state refs were not used

-the knowledge that one of the in-state refs used was fired for incompetence

So I think it's pretty clearly not one thing. It's a whole bunch of things, all of which favored one side over the other. Two of them came in OT, and one was a you win/they win call. Pretty direct linkage to the final outcome. And, to be clear, I didn't say I believed it to be a conspiracy. I said that reffing can and should improve. You don't really have a problem with the idea that reffing can and should improve, do you?

[THE_WIZARD_]

I'm sure as an M fan you see it that way. The spot was correct. The PI that Harbaugh claimed was uncatchable and past the receiver was a PI. The other two meh. 50/50 calls at best. The USC in Harbaugh was earned...I really don't give a flip what the sideline official said. Number of flags don't have to even out...love that argument though...lol. The conflict of interest....well as I said..conjecture at best.

Game was lost because of M's miscues. Trust me...I hate the vermin. I don't have a dog in the fight. But to throw out accusations or innuendos that the officials were biased and assisted OSU in the win? C'mon man.