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Old February 8th, 2009, 08:13 PM   #21
mason reese
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Who are the capable guys the Tigers traded away? Outside of Jurrjens (who ended up with basically the same numbers as Gallarraga), I can't say I remember hearing much about the other pitchers they've traded away(off hand I can only think of the guys that went to the Yankees). That's not to say the guys that got traded were bums or anything, but if they're not ready for the teams they are currently with, then they probably wouldn't have been ready for the Tigers either.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 02:46 AM   #22
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Pitchers DD has traded away since 2006 season.

2008 off season: None so far

2008 season: Jason Grilli (Zach Simons deal), Denny Bautista (scrub minor leaguer in return)

2007 offseason: Andrew Miller, Burke Badenhop, Dallas Trahen and E DeLaCruz (Cabrera deal) Jair Jurrjens (Renteria deal) Roman Colon (swap of minor leaguers), Jose Capellan (D Bautista deal)

2007 season: Wilfredo Ledezma (McBride trade),Mike Maroth (Chris Lambert trade), Christopher Cody (Jose Capellan trade)

2006 offseason: Andrew Claggert, Humbert Sanchez, Kevin Whelan (Sheffield deal)

2006 season: Brian Rogers (Sean Casey)

DD's drafts:

2004
In majors: Justin Verlanders (1st) prospects: James Skelton C (11th)

2005
Traded away: Cameron Maybin CF (1st), Chris Roberson C (2nd), Kevin Whelan RP (4th), A Claggert P (11th), Matt Joyce OF (12th)

Prospects: Jeff Larish 1B/3B (5th), Casper Wells OF (14th), Michael Hollimon SS/2b (16th)

2006
Traded away: Andrew Miller SP (1st), Christopher Cody (8th)

Prospects: Duane Below p (19th), Casey Fein rp (20th), Rudy Darrow p (32nd)

2007
Prospects: Rick Porcello SP (1st), Cale Iorg ss (6th), Jon Kibler LHSP (30th)

2008 draft is too early to tell much, to a large degree that is 2007 as well.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 03:25 PM   #23
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847

A-Roid comes clean... he took them.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 04:01 PM   #24
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You know what? Goddamn. Good for him. It beats the hell out of Mark "I'm Not Here to Talk About the Past" McGwire.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 04:24 PM   #25
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Ya know what? Had he had any integrity, he would have come clean when this entire thing blew up, rather than deny, deny, deny until someone finally proved it was all bullshit.

I have no respect for A-Fraud at all.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 04:42 PM   #26
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Nobody proved anything. His name surfaced as one of over 100 who tested positive. He could have denied, denied, denied like Clemens did, always leaving that shadow of doubt, that remote possibility that he was set up by a vengeful ex-trainer--like Clemens has. He came out and said, I did it. Good for him
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Old February 9th, 2009, 04:48 PM   #27
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How about when Canseco mentioned that he had introduced Rodriguez to a steroid dealer?

Remember how A-Rod so emphatically asserted that was 100% false? I do.

Rodriguez has also said on more than one occasion that he was clean and had never done that stuff.

And his name surfaced as tested positive in a document seized by federal authorities. Uhhh... I dunno about you, but I'd consider that proof that he was lying about being clean. He was more than willing to play the innocent act until he realized that he had been exposed as a phony. The only thing I might give him credit for is that he was smart enough to realize he was finally caught.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 05:03 PM   #28
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I can't add much to this other than I'm a humanist. Alex Rodriguez has confessed to a wrongdoing. You can condemn him for the wrongdoing, but for this act he has my admiration.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 05:15 PM   #29
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I'm a humanist too. I'm just not going to laud the "integrity" of a man who didn't be honest with the people until he felt he had no other choice. I won't crucify him for being human, but I'm certainly not going to respect a liar who only admitted to his failings once his back was against the wall.

Had he come forward say during the Mitchell investigation and said, "This is what I did, it probably wasn't true to the spirit of the game, but I did for [insert reason here]" then I'd probably laud his courage to face the music. Right now, I don't see him as any different than your average Joe caught in a lie. Pardon me if I don't find that to be anything to applaud.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 06:21 PM   #30
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Confessing only after being outed does not make a righteous man.

I'm on a cliche' roll today

Integrity is what you do when no one is watching
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Old February 9th, 2009, 06:42 PM   #31
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I'm so glad Todd Jones and Grilli are gone!!!!
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Old February 9th, 2009, 07:34 PM   #32
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I acquit players who are honest about it even after telling lies, baseball is to accept the majority blame for this, not the guy who took them without any fear of penaltly.

Look at the Tigers, do you think former weak hitting shortstop turned 25+home run hitting Brandon Inge didn't juice? Mags? Pudge? Sheff? They all did it.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 07:44 PM   #33
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A-Rod lied about it once .... emphatically. That makes him a liar. However, it appears he doesn't want to live that lie and came clean.

I'll give him those kudos. Couldn't have been easy.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 07:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masspartan View Post
A-Rod lied about it once .... emphatically. That makes him a liar. However, it appears he doesn't want to live that lie and came clean.

I'll give him those kudos. Couldn't have been easy.
Sure it was. He keeps lying and he becomes Bonds and Clemens, a pariah of the game and the general public.

It took zero courage to admit it to it now.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 08:10 PM   #35
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I think there are a lot of guys who would lawyer up and deny deny deny ... I'm glad he went the other way and I think it says something about his character in a good way.

You don't have to agree.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 08:28 PM   #36
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Chemiclord's world is black and white, he doesn't agree.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 08:28 PM   #37
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I think the point is...as Mass and I both said, and neither of you will admit...nothing was proven. I mean, to the public, in the sense of some sort of formal ascertainment of guilt. He wasn't suspended for violating a steroid policy. He wasn't convicted by a court. He didn't have the results posted by a sanctioned lab. SI's four sources are all anonymous; nobody, not baseball, not a DA, has come out and said, "A-Rod did it." Therefore, he had the same plausible deniability as the other hundreds of guys who were named in the Mitchell report or in a Canseco book or any other informal accusation. He chose to forego that and incriminate himself. That's what makes this refreshing.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 09:03 PM   #38
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He tested positive for a steroid substance on documents seized by the federal government.

I think that constitutes as proof. Whether or not the leak was moral or proper or not is irrelevant.

Sure, he could have denied it like Clemens and Bonds, and he would have wound up in the boat they are in.

I give him credit for taking it like a man when he pretty much had no choice to; but I'm not going to be impressed by something that took absolutely no courage to do. Had he done this 5 years ago when there was no reason to be upfront, then it would be a different matter.

Right now; too little too late, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 09:47 PM   #39
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You still don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemiclord View Post
He tested positive for a steroid substance on documents seized by the federal government.
Says who?
You see what I'm saying?
No PERSON was identified as saying he or she had seen that document. He could have kept denying, and it would have stayed gray.
Unlike ALL of his peers, he copped.
In fact--shit, I never do this. Ever. Within minutes of finding out about it, I looked up his fanmail e mail on the net and sent him a supportive fan letter.
That is how important truth is. And who cares what the circumstances were that led him to come clean? He did it. He didn't have to. But, unlike his brain dead peers, he decided it beat the alternative. Truth beat doubt.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 10:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjdodger View Post
You still don't get it.

Says who?
You see what I'm saying?
No PERSON was identified as saying he or she had seen that document. He could have kept denying, and it would have stayed gray.
No, it wouldn't have stayed gray.

Clemens counted on it staying gray.

Bonds counted on it staying gray.

It didn't. People started coming out of the woodwork, information continued to get leaked, and now they're living in a world of denial with a general public that hates them both.

That was the road A-Fraud saw. He knew the jig was up, and to keep playing the denial game wasn't going to end well. So he finally copped after he felt he had no choice but to minimize the damage. That's not courage or integrity. He's no better than any fool finally caught in a lie.

He's spinning for public approval now.
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