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Old October 4th, 2017, 10:58 AM   #321
paul daugherity
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That's true Hack. It just seems like he has underrecruited/not recruited enough O-lineman, and the O-line performance is not improving. I could live with it if it was mediocre, but seemed like it was getting better year to year, and improving from game to game. The fact that mistakes continue being made by multiple players game to game is what is so concerning.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 11:19 AM   #322
Hannibal
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To an extent it's fair to say that JH is cleaning up a big mess left by someone trying to clean up an even bigger mess. Dunno.
This is the last year that this excuse will have some validty. By year 4, it will be pretty much 100% Harbaugh.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 12:21 PM   #323
hack
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OT is a cursed position right now. Newsome was a massive loss. Imagine the line now if we could have shifted Cole to RT instead of back to LT. In recruiting, Devery Hamilton was a huge loss. And JH lost the coin-tons to Georgia for Wilson. It's really a problem.

The fact that mistakes continue being made by multiple players game to game is what is so concerning. - a big fat YES to that. We've really got to see that in the next two weeks.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 12:48 PM   #324
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Harbaugh's pro-style offense requires good-to-excellent offensive line play. To run the offense the way Harbaugh has tried the last 2-to-3 years, it takes offensive line execution much higher than we've seen this season...

This is year 3 of Harbaugh but just year 2 of his recruits. OL has been the missing piece in his offense. Of Harbaugh's 6 losses at M; 3 of them M was an offensive first-down away from putting the game away if they could run the ball when the opposing defense knew they were going to run.

I agree with the sentiment that it takes a pipeline/system along with experience & talent to build a good-to-excellent offensive line. To get the OL to be good enough, it's going to take another year, or two. A passing or read-option spread offense imo isn't as predicated on needing a very good OL. I hoped Pep Hamilton would help implement a more passing-based attack yet I still see M running tons of 2 TE sets that tip our hand to running the ball against 8-9 in the box.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 01:13 PM   #325
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It sure seems true that this system is more reliant on OL than others.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 01:17 PM   #326
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I have not watched a lot of M games. What is the issue? Pass pro? Run blocking? Penalties?
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Old October 4th, 2017, 01:42 PM   #327
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Pass blocking, run blocking, blitz pick up... Most everything.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 01:44 PM   #328
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The principle problem, AA, is killer missed assignments. This results in free rushers. QB die. Exhibit A: Wilton Speight. RB die. Pass-pro and run blocking are equally afflicted.
Pass-pro is easier so, a shade to run blocking as being the worst problem.

M has faced 2 for sure, maybe 3 very aggressive defenses (AF & Purdue). Purdue had 5 sacks and 11 tackles for loss after having 1 sack an no TFLs before that.

The best observers think the problem is two fold: (1) Bad line calls, (2) Bad post snap reads..... i.e., bad communication. We can't pin this down from our vantage point as fans.

The evidence for this is (1) The number of unblocked free rushers, QB sacks, TFLs, (2) defenses that employ these techniques and do them well, slant, stunt and twist, will eat M's OL alive. Experts with experience say this is from poor post snap reads and knowing what to do when you see these things.

To review. There are experience, maturity and vision issues across the entire line with the exception of maybe Mason Cole at LT. Bredeson at LG is good to glaringly bad. The C, RG and RT make the majority of identifiable WTFs according to knowledgeable people that review video and report on it to us fans.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 01:56 PM   #329
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The missed communications/assignments are plain to see. But even when they are just straight up blocking the guy in front of them, the OL is too often getting beat in man for man. Granted, teams dumping 8 in the box all the time and LBs shooting the running lanes is not helping. That's where they need to be able to beat teams with the passing game.

It seems like on most of the early play action they do is to get that shot down the field for the big play. But I'd like to see them focus on hitting the TEs on intermediate routes early in those situations. Give those LBs more to think about.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 02:09 PM   #330
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When their backs were up against the wall but not until then, they actually did do that, Mainevent. In the second half when everyone knew M wasn't able to run the ball, the offense started to throw the ball on 1st/2nd and was predictably far more successful...

With O'Korn in there, the offense went from a PA/deep route scheme (high reward, low success) to a crossing route/mesh (easier reads & passes) offense. Unsure if this was due to O'Korn in there or Drevno/Hamilton seeing something from the opposition.

Speight struggles with the short, medium routes and mightily with the blitz. He needed very good pass protection, O'Korn should be better when the pocket collapses as it does most the time.

Saturday is a tough test for M's offensive line, play calling, and JOK. We're lucky to have had a bye week and be at home.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 02:10 PM   #331
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Speight had lost some of his elusiveness, too.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 02:26 PM   #332
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Yup, I remember Speight able to regularly escape and make plays last season. I haven't seen that Speight at all this season, OL could be the cause as much as him.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 02:27 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by AlabamAlum View Post
I have not watched a lot of M games. What is the issue? Pass pro? Run blocking? Penalties?
For almost everybody -- assignments. The worst part about it is that there is only one guy on the OL who gets beat physically with some regularity.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 02:33 PM   #334
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^

This. Offensive lineman are hesitant, and confused. Entirely unblocked defenders is the result of OL not being in sync with each other or line calls like Jeff says.
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Old October 4th, 2017, 02:42 PM   #335
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It's an interesting problem. Running a Power and a Counter, as an offensive linemen, goes back to junior high. 'Analysis Paralysis' shouldn't really be an issue at this point. Every o-line coach adds his own wrinkles and nuances, but the major concepts are the same.

With pass pro, a defense can always scheme to overwhelm the o-line and get a guys free and in the backfield. Of course, done enough, that should get the D eaten up with hot routes and screens.

I plan to watch the Michigan State-Michigan game this weekend. I wil give you my expert impressions on Sunday and you can cut and paste and email directly to JH. Thank me later.
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