DetroitLionsForum.com
Please support the forum by using this link to shop with our sponsor:

Go Back   DetroitLionsForum.com > Sports Discussion Forums > University of Michigan

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 14th, 2017, 03:49 PM   #21
WingsFan
Senior Member
 
WingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor MI
Posts: 8,490
McCray has really been struggling, AF could add to that. Most think he's still dinged up.
WingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 14th, 2017, 03:51 PM   #22
The Oracle
Senior Member
 
The Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 6,917
Can't imagine not going more traditional front vs air force. Gary, mone, Hurst, Winovich, Bush, McCray, Hudson.
The Oracle is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 14th, 2017, 03:57 PM   #23
Jeff Buchanan
Senior Member
 
Jeff Buchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 6,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Oracle View Post
Can't imagine not going more traditional front vs air force. Gary, mone, Hurst, Winovich, Bush, McCray, Hudson.
Dunno ..... what makes Brown's version of the 3-3-5, 1 gap D so tough on AF is that the OL can't decide who they're going to option off to. It's a guessing game.

In a traditional 4-3, 2 gap D, the OL knows exactly which gap every defender is going to be in, who to double and who not to.

The risk is that the LBs and Ss who become those extra DL in Brown's D will get too aggressive. They have to stay gap sound and disciplined in making sure they know who the ball carrier is and where he's going ..... the A-back, the QB and the two B backs.
__________________
On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): “We'd rather be about it than talk about it."
Jeff Buchanan is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 14th, 2017, 04:00 PM   #24
Jeff Buchanan
Senior Member
 
Jeff Buchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 6,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsFan View Post
McCray has really been struggling, AF could add to that. Most think he's still dinged up.
Actually, Brown, who has him at the WILL, probably neutralizes at least some of his limitations (coverage and horizontal speed) and optimizes his skills. He's a heady player with ball sense; he knows where to go and he's a powerful run stopper.
__________________
On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): “We'd rather be about it than talk about it."
Jeff Buchanan is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 14th, 2017, 04:25 PM   #25
WM Wolverine
Senior Member
 
WM Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8,557
You'd expect a 4-man front vs Air Force; both Hurst & Mone should be clogging up the middle to defend the dive with help from the MLB. We'll see what Brown does but conventional wisdom says you need to stop the first option (dive) of the triple option to have any chance. When you can't stop the dive, everything else breaks down. DE's, OLB's are able to defend the keeper/pitch instead of cheating in the middle to help the tackles.

4-3 is most always a 1-gap, Jeff. Brown's 3-3-5 is a 1-gap too, the defense just doesn't know which gap the LB's are defending... Article at MGoBlog by Seth is excellent at cleaning up the massive amount of misinformation about the 3-3-5, too many (e.g. MGoBlog forum) really have no clue what they are talking about.

Last edited by WM Wolverine; September 14th, 2017 at 04:48 PM.
WM Wolverine is online now   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 14th, 2017, 04:38 PM   #26
The Oracle
Senior Member
 
The Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 6,917
Not to mention with Hurst, Mone, Gary, good luck singling any of those guys.
The Oracle is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 14th, 2017, 06:06 PM   #27
iam416
Senior Member
 
iam416's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,860
You pollanna asshats are batshit crazy.
__________________
Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.
iam416 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 14th, 2017, 07:00 PM   #28
Jeff Buchanan
Senior Member
 
Jeff Buchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 6,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by WM Wolverine View Post
You'd expect a 4-man front vs Air Force; both Hurst & Mone should be clogging up the middle to defend the dive with help from the MLB. .......
I read Seth's description of Brown's version of the 3-3-5 Stack and the piece called Fee-Fi-Fo-Film AF Offense. Brown is 3-3-5 aficionado and advanced Jeff Casteel's WV version of it when Brown was at BC. We could see a 4-3 but according to Ace's piece on the offense he thinks Brown will stick with the 3-3-5 Stack ........

How will Michigan approach defending the Air Force attack? This screencap from the 2013 Boston College-Army game, when Don Brown was BC's defensive coordinator, indicates Michigan won't stray from the 3-3-5 stack that's been their base defense so far this season .......

This is ideal. It's easier to stop triple option offenses with one-gap defenses instead of two-gap defenses, and Brown's 3-3-5 is an aggressive one-gap scheme. 4-3 teams often adjust their linebackers so the MIKE has extra depth behind the nose tackle, giving him extra time to read the play and attack downhill; Brown's scheme already puts the MIKE at option-defense depth. Devin Bush will be a key defender in this game, and given the read-and-react ability he's shown so far this season, that's good news for Michigan. Mo Hurst also has a lot of responsibility at the nose, as he'll be a primary target for cut blocks as AF tries to open up the dive; Hurst should be able to handle that.


I'm pretty sure Brown will get what looks (confusingly and purposefully I would think) a 4-3 with the 3-3-5 stack; Hurst or Mone will be at the T position lined up over the C; the guys on each side of the T are called the Anchor and the End (Winovich and Kemp usu.). A LB or a S is going to step up to or very close to the LOS hands down or up doesn't really matter. I think this is where Brown's 3-3-5 looks morelike a 4-2-5. To the QB and OL trying to figure out what play to run, they are looking at a 4 man, 1 gap front.

Again, Seth ...... Offenses look for clues from the defense’s alignment to know what their jobs are gonna be. On inside zone for example the offensive linemen identify whether they’re covered or not to know ahead of the snap if they’re going to combo which guy and how. Option offenses like Air Force’s will all want to agree who they’re optioning.

Trying to make those identifications gets tougher the better the defense can disguise who’s in what gap, and the 3-3-5 is an extreme version of that. You can have any linebacker or even the safeties very often appearing in a base run gap, and the alignment leaves little clue who or where that guy will show up. If you haven’t practiced for it, your guys are going to miss assignments a lot.


Not saying either of you guys are wrong mainly becasue terminology is confusing and obscure in may cases. But Brown has fashioned a very flexible D out of 3-3-5 concepts and the general consensus floating around out there v. AF is that he'll stick with that as his base D. Typical fans, and I include myself among that group, can't pick this up live (in the stadium or on TV). Replay helps but the real identification of what's going on for us comes from post game video study and that is not nearly as good as the multi-angle video that the coaches have available to them.
__________________
On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): “We'd rather be about it than talk about it."
Jeff Buchanan is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 15th, 2017, 01:24 AM   #29
WM Wolverine
Senior Member
 
WM Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8,557
No idea what Brown will do vs Air Force, he's not been predictable... Changing your base defense for one opponent is never optimal. Which is why you never schedule the military Universities, or Georgia Tech for awhile, and why I won't be surprised if we stick to the base 3-3-5 tomorrow.
WM Wolverine is online now   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 15th, 2017, 11:47 AM   #30
WingsFan
Senior Member
 
WingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor MI
Posts: 8,490
Drew Hallett‏ @DrewCHallett 48s48 seconds ago
More
Michigan Fans Tomorrow:

12:00-3:30 (Mich-AF): Man, the triple option is annoying.

4:30-8:00 (OSU-Army): WOO TRIPLE OPTION LET'S GOOO
WingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 15th, 2017, 12:28 PM   #31
WingsFan
Senior Member
 
WingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor MI
Posts: 8,490
Sp8 is going to have a big day tomorrow.
WingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 15th, 2017, 02:45 PM   #32
THE_WIZARD_
Senior Member
 
THE_WIZARD_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,148
Why? Did he discover his "special purpose"?
__________________
Shut the fuck up Donny!
THE_WIZARD_ is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 16th, 2017, 11:08 AM   #33
Kstat
Senior Member
 
Kstat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 18,567
All year to throw and he still airmails wide open receivers.
Kstat is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 16th, 2017, 11:10 AM   #34
klondike
Senior Member
 
klondike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,668
Can't wait to see Peters. Is he that bad?
klondike is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 16th, 2017, 11:13 AM   #35
Cody_Russell
Senior Member
 
Cody_Russell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,424
Yes yes... Speight doesn't have much potential, O'Korn is a scrub that was beat out in Houston, and Peters is young.

Same old Michigan.
__________________
Go Detroit Lions!
Cody_Russell is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 16th, 2017, 11:14 AM   #36
Kstat
Senior Member
 
Kstat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 18,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by klondike View Post
Can't wait to see Peters. Is he that bad?
I think no one is good/ready enough for him to open that door.

I'm not calling for anyone to replace Speight. It just really really sucks that he's the best we have because he's not good enough to get this team to the playoffs and this team is plenty good enough to be there.

Last edited by Kstat; September 16th, 2017 at 11:17 AM.
Kstat is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 16th, 2017, 11:17 AM   #37
paul daugherity
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 486
Nice series by the defense. Hopefully that continues.
paul daugherity is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 16th, 2017, 11:22 AM   #38
MVPJ05
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 105
He was down?
MVPJ05 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 16th, 2017, 11:22 AM   #39
paul daugherity
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 486
Evans moving himself down the depth chart.
paul daugherity is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old September 16th, 2017, 11:23 AM   #40
MVPJ05
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 105
Very impress with this defense...
MVPJ05 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owners. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © DetroitLionsForum.com.
This site is a non-profit fan site and IS NOT affiliated with the NFL or Detroit Lions or any other sports team. Please visit the official site of the Detroit Lions for official information on the Lions.