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Old November 14th, 2016, 05:49 PM   #21
maxreturn
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Originally Posted by Rocky Bleier View Post
Does this mean they dumb down the offense? It looked pretty dumb in Iowa already.


I hope we see this guy:

John O'Korn Rookie of the Year Highlights (Freshmen year UH) - YouTube
Amen
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Old November 14th, 2016, 06:18 PM   #22
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We're going to see a couple of things:

How good of a coach is Harbaugh. This a huge deal, as someone already said. Not only do we have an essentially untested QB starting (yeah, he's had some random snaps and not great, Bob), he's been the Scout team QB so, how well does he know Harbaughffense? Some.

I have to say, I'm not that upset about this. I was more upset with M's last three plays, the last one of which, probably broke Speight's collar bone. I'd call that a pretty big stain on whoever was calling those plays ...... Drevno, Fishe, Harbaugh? Whoever, it was a shit show.

So, now, there is impetus to adjust the offense to what O'Korn, not Speight, does best. Harbaugh seems to love run, pass, run - first down; bomb, pass, pass, first down; run, run, pass. I think I can find this sort of pattern to this season. Here's something else to chew on ....... think back to last year's loss to MSU. There's another pattern here. As the game winds down, if M doesn't have a two or three score lead and it's close, the offense appears to go into a cocoon. In both these games, the play caller (again, whoever that was) produced both a shit show and a huge special teams error on the last series and M lost.

I think we've seen some level of weakness on the part of the coaching staff in tight games in the closing couple of minutes. Maybe there was some degree of sideline confusion or Harbaugh was tense and it tricked down? What other explanation is there for 10 players on the special teams v. the Iowa field goal, not once but fucking 2X and after a time out! So, there is that to think about. It's a pattern, IMO.

O'Korn may not do well with the sort of play call pattern that worked for Speight, until Iowa who appeared to have figured out M's offensive tendencies and had well timed blitzes and appeared to know what was coming (ala. Carr/Debord). The net result ........ basically stuffed an M offense that was scoring 40 points and getting 450 yards plus on the day.

Something was very weird about that game. That's why I'm somewhat optimistic. Break tendencies. Get the staff to innovate and bring something new to the table. Now, the downside of this is whatever the adjustments the offense has to make, is that O'Korn sucks, gets rattled (because IU will bring the kitchen sink - count on it) and turns the ball over a bunch.

As well, you can't change the entire offense; you just have to tweak it ....... JO has mobility, he appears to throw well on the run. The only thing I haven't liked is he has happy feet. I also don't think he's keeping his eyes down field like Speight did on the move. He bails to quicky. The big pass play of the PA is a staple of Harbaughffense. When it's on, its a decent strategy. I don't think O'Korn is a PA kind of QB. The kind that can check down through 3 reads. He's more of a pistol, read once and innovate sort of guy. Help him out here, Jim even though that is clearly not your thing. Time to give it a try.

I'm pretty sure the PA thins is not O'Korn's thing. Apparently JH thought he didn't have it and Speight did. Fine. He doesn't have Speight any more. Adjust. My sense is that if Harbaugh tries to make O'Korn Wilton Speight, there's a good chance the last two games will be a disaster. If the O struggles and doesn't take advantage, shape the O to what O'Korn does well, JH is going to go down a click or two in my wonderment about him department.

This is where great coaches get tested.

Fun times.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 06:28 PM   #23
UMStan White
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Everything I have seen of O'Korn is that he bails way too early. There's a reason he was benched and left Houston. This desire to run will cost us the game Saturday. Speight could stand in the pocket, take a hit , move out of the hit and make his passes. For all those idiots who wanted O'Korn and not Speight, well be careful what you wish for. (yeah Rocky you are number one on this list)We go to OSU with two straight losses and basically nothing to play for. Only "revenge" we get is OSU kicks our ass and doesn't make it to the playoffs. Unfortunately for us, OSU kicks our ass and dos make it to the playoffs over PSU or Wisky.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 06:36 PM   #24
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We get Indiana at home. It's not a good team. Not gonna lose.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 06:53 PM   #25
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As long as O'Korn is decent, we should win but it maybe closer than the oddsmakers want.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 08:00 PM   #26
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Harbaugh squashes Speight out for the season rumor!!!

Speight Tweets Baumgardner he does not have a clavicular FX.

I have to say, I didn't think so. I saw nothing suggesting a season ending clavicular FX.

First time I've seen Brian with egg on his face. He is usually very careful about not posting a story until he is 100% sure it is accurate.

http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/harbaugh...n-update-751pm
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Old November 14th, 2016, 08:09 PM   #27
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Just reading through the mgobog posts ........

People are posting that Harbaugh is tyring to fuck with IU. That is patent BS. You don't screw around with losing your starting QB. My sense is that he's trying to quash the rumor that Speight has a broken Clavicle.

Or ..... Harbaugh is trying to influence the play-off committee. Shades of Bo getting fucked on (Rose) Bowl Trips b/c Dennis Franklin was injured? I don't buy that either.

Going back to my too long piece on what I thought (and still think) Speight is dealing with. What I posted is accurate if Harbaugh is to be believed...... he's got some degree of AC separation.

So, give O'Korn lots of reps; work in plays for him. If Speight is feeling good enough to play and he's able to throw the passes Harbaugh needs him to throw late in the week, fine. Let him start but FRICKING HAVE O'KORN READY AND HAVE A PLAY SHEET THAT CALLS PLAYS HE'S GOOD AT..
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Old November 14th, 2016, 08:19 PM   #28
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I'm thinking that if there was something that was going to take M's starting QB out of the IU game, the odd's would change.

The sites I watch there is no change. It's still M by 28.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 10:44 PM   #29
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Indiana looked very good against Penn State. The Hoosiers were far superior from what I saw, although they ultimately lost through the most freakish succession of fumbles and general bad luck.

So the Indiana game is the big one. We'll probably lose to the Buckeyes. I'm afraid we were exposed rather badly at Iowa.

I'm somewhat happy to see what O'Korn can do. I don't think Speight will play. O'Korn was my choice before the season, although I was glad Harbaugh gave the job to the best performer from his much superior perspective. But O'Korn was good coming in, and has only gained respect by accepting his role as 2nd string with perfect composure.

All these comments that "O'Korn bails way too early" are complete nonsense in my opinion. If Harbaugh doesn't want him to run as much, he won't. Why would he? We'll see Saturday if, as I anticipate, O'Korn is indeed out.

This is not what I was expecting and hoping for last week, but is still fun. Indiana is all that matters now.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 10:51 PM   #30
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Houston offense is based on pre snap numbers and one simple read. Harbaugh has a completely different system and is based on progressions, and he (O'Korn) has bailed out after his first read hasn't been there. Re programming is not an easy task.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 11:08 PM   #31
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He's a bailer. One way to remedy that is to get the ball out of his hands fast. The thing he may do better than Speight is throw the deep ball. Can anyone remember any plays from the spring game? Speight def has him in the poise category though.
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Old November 15th, 2016, 06:57 AM   #32
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"All these comments that "O'Korn bails way too early" are complete nonsense in my opinion. "

I agree. Most of your opinions are complete nonsense
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Old November 15th, 2016, 08:17 AM   #33
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I'm thinking that if there was something that was going to take M's starting QB out of the IU game, the odd's would change.

The sites I watch there is no change. It's still M by 28.
It's down to 23.
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Old November 15th, 2016, 08:20 AM   #34
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In the very limited time that I've actually seen O'Korn play in a Michigan uniform, I have seen his tendency to tuck and run early. A valid reason why he didn't win the job. If he can learn to go through his progressions, I believe he has more upside than Speight. To be honest, Speight has been pretty good this year, but O'Korn has the tools to put more stress on a defense.
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Old November 15th, 2016, 08:34 AM   #35
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......All these comments that "O'Korn bails way too early" are complete nonsense in my opinion.
Well, small sample size but he appears to do that. This has been pointed out several times: The style of offense he played in before coming to M, including HS ball, was the Pistol style. He thrived at Houston in that offense before the Cougar's OC's changed and with it, the offensive style of play.

If I understand the philosophy of a Pistol offense (and there are a bunch of different forms of this offense first brought to CFB by Nevada HC, Chris Ault), it tries to take advantage of spread concepts while maintaining the ability to run power. Harbaugh actually used the framework of the Pistol For Colin Kaepernick and Frank Gore. It's not what he used at Stanford or apparently, now, at M.

It is a no-huddle, quick read offense fundamentally. O'Korn was listed as a pro-style QB out of HS. That kind of QB is what works in the Pistol used by Houston when he was recruited. My sense is that Harbaugh decided at some point that he was going to run I-Form Power at M with an under center QB and Play Action as his base set. Clearly, Speight is better at that that than O'Korn whose used to sitting back in Pistol to survey the defense, pre snap, not as he drops back, find an open receiver and get the ball out quickly.

I think it's interesting that Harbaugh reached out to O'Korn knowing full well he was best suited for an offense that at the time of his recruitment to M, JH was probably not going to install. Harbaugh might have considered it though using O'KOrn as his QB, much like he used Kaepernick at SF, but as spring and fall practice evolved, he found his players were better suited to an I-Form Power style of offense. Speight emerged as the better QB in that style offense and O'Korn became a back-up.

Run concepts also change in the Pistol. Primarily Zone Read, again, that is clearly not what Harbaugh is doing right now, requires more zone than man blocking. M's OL man blocks for the most part.

So, it seems to me O'Korn is not a good match for what Harbaugh wants to do on offense right now. Moreover, JO's QB clock runs at a different tempo than Speight's. To optimize O'Korn's pre-snap reads from the pistol then quick release in the passing game would probably require some substantive changes in Harbaugh's offense. When you put JO under center and drop him back in a pocket, ask him to read through probably three check-downs, that's a hard process for him and explains a little bit about why he appears to bail.
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Old November 15th, 2016, 08:41 AM   #36
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I think HARBAUGH!!!! was unnerved by the quarterback position and was in "any fucking port in a storm" mode from Day 1. O'Korn was just another way of increasing the likelihood he'd find a serviceable QB.

I still think he's a little thin for 2018 -- Peters or McCarthy -- but at least he recruited those kids and has coached them from Day 1, so he should feel pretty good about them. Still, a little lacking in depth.

But eons upon eons better than the shitshow he stepped into.
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Old November 15th, 2016, 08:46 AM   #37
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McCaffrey

Plus Speight still in 2018, and Gentry in an emergency, I suppose.

We're going to be stocked at that position.
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Old November 15th, 2016, 08:47 AM   #38
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It's down to 23.
I'll lay the points. Fuck it. I've seen this a million times. QB gets injured, team gets laser focused and then kicks the shit out of somebody.

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Old November 15th, 2016, 08:48 AM   #39
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I think HARBAUGH!!!! was unnerved by the quarterback position and was in "any fucking port in a storm" mode from Day 1. O'Korn was just another way of increasing the likelihood he'd find a serviceable QB.
I'd disagree. Harbaugh is probably a bit smarter than how you portrayed him although that's just my take.

I think you can make a case that Harbaugh might have considered a Pistol offense and reached out to O'Korn because of that consideration. Bilema did it with Russell Wilson, a Pistol QB at NCSU, and that worked out pretty well.

That he used Kaepernick in Pistol formations at SF lends some fuel to that fire as well. JMO.
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Old November 15th, 2016, 08:54 AM   #40
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On a related note ...... the line is down, as talent points out. The books know something.

I think there's a good chance that it is known by M's coaching staff that Speight is not going to be 100% at game time. There is probably plenty of consideration being given to O'Korn starting and a good chance O'Korn at 100% is a better QB than Wilton at, say, 70%.

Nothing has changed at mgoblog and Brian's post is still up. That tells me that he thinks his "source" is good. I guess I'd have to move in the direction that there is some gamesmanship being played by Harbaugh and Speight via Twitter/Facebook, however, I think there is plenty of debate regarding the intent of it.
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