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Michigan Football, Team 138, 2017 Season.

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  • Originally posted by AlabamAlum View Post
    And Purdue (and all schools who do this) need to stop with this "make the visitors' lockerroom as shitty as possible" gamesmanship.
    I agree 100%. And although this recent situation should be reason enough, it's just lame in general. It has zero effect on the game and it makes the home team look desperate in my opinion.

    AAL: A'Shawn Robinson

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    • There's a couple of good posts floating around elsewhere calling for perspective on M's offense in general and the Peter's situation specifically.

      There's been lots of internet hate for the OL, the coaches coaching the OL and specifically the right side. As well a lot of hand-wringing over OL recruiting and the perceived inability to land top OL prospects nationally.

      Perspective is that there has been game by game improvement in both run and pass blocking the most dramatic v. Rutgers. Yes, I know, it's Rutgers but the big holes and 334 rush yards, no sacks and clean pockets for both QBs is worth noting against a defense that is not terrible (they rank right around the middle at #60).

      More perspective: Encouraging that in a man-ball offense where all 11 players have to get it right for the play to work, way more plays are working than aren't working. The OL is generally young. Except for Cole, they will all be back for 2-3 more seasons, possibly more.

      OL recruits are notoriously hard to assign stars to reliably. There are multiple Harbaugh OL recruits coming up that will provide depth and competition. Its a process, it takes time to build a pipeline.

      On Peters: the best thing I heard was from Space Cyote at mgoblog. His rendition of perspective on the QB situation is excellent. First on the question of why did Harbaugh wait so long. There are judgement calls that are made by the coaching staff based on practices. What those involve and what the outcomes of those calls are fans have no clue. A QB's mental attitude toward the game is fragile. It has to be managed. We can't possibly know how to do that better than a guy like Harbaugh. Knowing the playbook and seeing the field then making good decisions is complicated in Harbaughffense. Again, as JH has commented when asked questions like this is that it is a process, it takes time. Harbaugh also commented in regard to a question on Peters successfully running the 2 minute drill that sometimes QBs look good in practice based on what the coaches decide to throw at him both on the play call and the defense he'll be shown, then they don't look good in a live game. Sometimes it's the opposite. Peters performed really well in the 2 minute drill to end the first half.(read Peters may not have done that well in practice).

      Peters, in the judgement of the coaching staff wasn't ready a few weeks ago but the decision was made that he was ready when he was put in v. Rutgers. As JH said post game, "Brandon played well, better than we expected." Does that mean the coaches were wrong about him and he should have started sooner? That's a doubtful proposition given what we know about Harbaugh.

      More perspective: O'Korn looked good v. Purdue because Purdue didn't have any video on him. DCs have different ways that they scheme against specific QBs. The scheme depends on what QBs do well and what they don't do well. Once you have book on them, it gets harder for the QB to perform. Expect that it will get harder for Peters going forward. Instead of complaining about whatever mistakes he is bound to make in the games that he will start going forward (and he is going to start v the Gophers for sure and probably the rest of the way per JH) we should be supporting him.
      There is such a thing as redemption. Jim Harbaugh is redeemed at the expense of a fading Ryan Day and OSU. M wins back to back games v. OSU first time since 1999-2000​ - John Cooper was fired in 2000!!!

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      • Complaining about starting Peters earlier is a waste of time. We have no idea if he would have won us the MSU game or been ready in time to give us a better chance in Happy Valley. I am suspicious that Peters has taken an off-the-field leap in the past three weeks, but then again you need to give your senior the chance first. Either way, what's done is done, and hopefully after next week we have more nice things to say. The table is set for Peters to get his feet wet, get settled in, and give the defense a fighting change aginst OSU.

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        • All 11 people don't have to be right for a play to work in that offense.

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          • Originally posted by hack View Post
            Complaining about starting Peters earlier is a waste of time. We have no idea if he would have won us the MSU game or been ready in time to give us a better chance in Happy Valley. I am suspicious that Peters has taken an off-the-field leap in the past three weeks, but then again you need to give your senior the chance first. Either way, what's done is done, and hopefully after next week we have more nice things to say. The table is set for Peters to get his feet wet, get settled in, and give the defense a fighting change aginst OSU.
            I'm pretty sure that Peters would have won us the MSU game.

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            • I'm pretty sure that Harbaugh not being a fucking idiot with the playcalling would have done just the same, but both of us are just guessing.

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              • Maybe so, but the next time that the coaches make a strange personnel decision, will "but Brandon Peters" be in your mind when people are saying "trust the coaches"?

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                • Yes. Absolutely will be.

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                  • Let's see how Peters plays the next few weeks. He certainly has potential, but he came in in relief against Rutgers. Not ready to proclaim him the second coming of Elway just yet.
                    I'll let you ban hate speech when you let me define hate speech.

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                    • It was weird that once they brought in Peters it seemed lime that offensive line turned into road graders. It is similar to a basketball or hockey team playing a lot better after the coach is fired.

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                      • The crowd reaction almost made me feel sorry for O'Korn.
                        I'll let you ban hate speech when you let me define hate speech.

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                        • Originally posted by Rocky Bleier View Post
                          The crowd reaction almost made me feel sorry for O'Korn.
                          The "crowd" (yeah, another overinflated number- the student section must have been almost a third empty) reaction was a lot worse when Hoke's teams were getting manhandled by the likes of Minnesota and Maryland.

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                          • Originally posted by froot loops View Post
                            It was weird that once they brought in Peters it seemed lime that offensive line turned into road graders. It is similar to a basketball or hockey team playing a lot better after the coach is fired.
                            That was right guard Michael Onwenu grading boulevards for Isaac and Higdon. He's been playing really well since somewhere around the Purdue game. Onwenu was recruited from Cass Technical (Detroit, MI) class of 2016. He committed to Michigan in JUne 2015. He's a Harbaugh recruit (Tim Drevno).

                            Ben Bredeson at LG has been reliable throughout. Bredeson was recruited from Arrowhead (Hartland, WI) class of 2016 in 2018 as an OT. He committed to Michigan on in June of 2015. He's a Harbaugh recruit (Greg Mattison , Tim Drevno). I would not be at all surprised to see him playing LT in 2018 with Mason Cole's departure.

                            Juwann Bushell-Beatty is a Junior and a Hoke recruit in the 2014 class. He's become a very good run blocker at RT since replacing Ulizio who was good at neither run or pass blocking. Of interest in this context, JBB couldn't beat out Nolan Ulizio in camp. Ulizio was recruited from Lakota West (West Chester, OH) class of 2015. He committed to Michigan in January 2015. He was a Harbaugh recruit only by virtue of his commitment in 2015 (D.J. Durkin). M will really have two experienced RTs in 2018 (JBB and Ulizio) competing for that starting spot.

                            For all the OL recruiting hand-wringers reading this, while Ekiyor, an interior lineman, is gone from the 2018 class, four-star linemen Jalen Mayfield and Ryan Hayes both project to tackle. Moreover, M has need for tackles not interior linemen right now. M targeted 13 OL recruits in 2017 per 247 and took 5 (including 3, 4* - Jay-Raymond Hall, OT, Chuck Fillaga, OT and Cesar Ruiz - C). M's OL pipeline is shaping up nicely.

                            Patrick Kugler is at C. He is also a senior like Cole. He was recruited from North Allegheny (Wexford, PA) class of 2013. He committed to Michigan in 2012. He's a Hoke recruit (Darrell Funk, Al Borges). He replaced Graham Glascow who graduated in 2016. It's taken a while but Kugler has played well against middling competition including Rutgers. He was absolutely destroyed v. PSU. Cesar Ruiz will probably replace him in 2018. Ruiz was recruited from IMG Academy (Bradenton, FL) class of 2017. He committed to Michigan in December of 2016. He's a Harbaugh recruit (Chris Partridge, Tim Drevno). He's already had some playing time as a 6th OL in one of JH's weird heavy sets.

                            The reason I ran these down in response to Froot's post is that this is sort-of a patch work offensive line. The players are young and/or a combo of Hoke and JH recruits. That they played as well as they did v. Rutgers is, IMO, a reflection of two things: (1) Rutgers DL is statistically decent and made so by HC Chris Ash (ufm coaching tree as his DC) and (2) that they played so well in this game is a reflection of solid player development.

                            There was so much bitching about coaching and player development after PSU (and it started before that), IMO, the "road grader" meme used here to describe the OL by an outsider from MSU is noteworthy. It is so because good OL play is developed over time. Usually a long time and there has to be consistent coaching in terms of offensive style and technique over time and a pipeline in place to achieve good OL play.

                            Everybody knows the implications of the poor OL recruiting since at least 2012, probably earlier, but OL recruits before then aren't factors in the current discussion about the perception regarding how shitty it is and how poorly they've been developed. To me, it's really obvious why the OL hasn't been great and it has more to do with inconsistent style of play and coaching and the lack of a steady pipeline of solid players playing on the OL. That all of a sudden they are now "road graders" tends to confer a hell of a lot of credit on the coaches and player development given the circumstances. The pipeline is improving and apparently in dramatic fashion. There's no question ion my outsider mind that the coaches immediately identified the problem with OL depth when JH arrived and went to work on it as best they could. Credit due.

                            I'm not getting all excited right now about the OL because it was Rutgers. Minnesota has some decent DEs and a solid DL. If the run game continues to thrive v. the Gophers and the Terps, producing a clobbering run game, I'll be excited about it and M's chances of beating Wisky in Madison.
                            There is such a thing as redemption. Jim Harbaugh is redeemed at the expense of a fading Ryan Day and OSU. M wins back to back games v. OSU first time since 1999-2000​ - John Cooper was fired in 2000!!!

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                            • Tom W, ??? They went nuts when Peters came in, and I thought O'Korn may have been a bit embarrassed by that.
                              I'll let you ban hate speech when you let me define hate speech.

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                              • (1) Rutgers DL is statistically decent and made so by HC Chris Ash (ufm coaching tree as his DC)
                                I'm not sure what "statistically decent" means, but Rutgers run defense is bad.
                                I'm not getting all excited right now about the OL because it was Rutgers.
                                Correct.

                                The week before Rutgers' statistically decent run defense battled M, they held Purdue to 279 yards rushing on 41 carries for a 6.8 ypc clip. And, for good measure, M is the SECOND team from WASHTENAW COUNTY to beat Rutgers this year.

                                I'll brook none of this "Rutgers isn't bad" crap. Maybe relative to their historically unfathomable terribleness in 2016, but in absolute terms -- CRAP.
                                Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                                Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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